Is the Dubai property market falling apart or finding a level?

[Brendan R]

:flute:
Europe shares rise as Dubai concerns ease- Global Markets-Markets-The Economic Times

nope, markets are up because there are more buyers than sellers :bootyshake:

the Dubai news is a non event. I've always been amazed by the ability certain people have to find links between unconnected facts. Well, I guess that's the world we live in. It's all about shortcuts.

Well, we see where shortcuts sometimes bring you... ask Dubai and all the investors it has ripped off.:flowers:

 

[financier888]

recourse

I agree. I went to Dubai in Feb 2008 to complete on a property I sold.
This was the first time I had been, and was quite surprised at how nice Dubai was and how safe I felt.

On this basis I invested in 2 other projects 1. Eagle Heights and 2. The Cube.

I was looking for some advice from yourself if possible or from anyone else that maybe able to help.

The Eagle heights project hasn't got off the ground and I can't get in contact with the developers. I've emailed RERa numerous times with no responce.
The money is supposed to be in an Escrow account - I've again emailed the Dubai Islamic Bank and again, I haven't had any responce.

I paid a lawyer to do an investigation on my behalf to see the best way forward.
All they could advise was to go through the courts at an estimated expence of 230,000 dhr - equivalent to £39,000. With no guarantee of getting any money back.

I thought an Escrow account was there to protect the buyer if circumstances like this occur. But it appears that unless you have got tens of thousands of pounds to gamble on getting your money back. There's nothing you can do about it.

I would be very grateful if anyone knows of anything that I can do to try and recoup some of my money back.

You'd be well advised to personally take a trip to Dubai & visit the RERA office in person - in addition, visit the bank that holds the escrow - they MUST disclose the balance and supply you with the record of your payments... Very hard to do vis a vis emails... The other response on this thread about 'going to lawyers' and wasting your money - is on the the 'mark' - as in many cases - this is a waste of time and money but not always.. depends on many factors..

You might post a thread on here about the project in question 'Eagle Heights - other investors HELP' and no doubt - you'll hear from others that may have more up to date info. There are a few lawyers that offer their services on this forum and probably worth a call as the sell themselves as being 'result' oriented' - rather than wanting a heap of money upfront.

You need to determine if the developer is still solvent and IN THE COUNTRY!! the cost just to file a case is AED 30,000 and that's without legal fees - just the filing fee!! so - quite costly. Post a thread on EAGLE and look for other investors but prepare yourself to fly to Dubai and try to sort it

good luck to you

 

[pluto]

This georgihh is quite a character. Either some jackwipe real estate agent or heavily invested talker. Trust that the market is nothing nor will be what this F-nut
is saying. This bast@ard knows only how to con people and speak horsekrap.

Not falling apart only correction.
We are at the prices of 2006 and the down turn has stopped (still some adjustments are going on). All over the world the prices are at 2005-2006 levels the only deference is that the peak in Dubai was higher. Q/E is going to ease the situation and buyer is already coming on the market. Unfortunately the current prices will not start going up until the demand overcomes the supply sometime 2011. We will see one very stable market with small variations in the next 2 years.
Once Emaar and Nakheel are reduced to 30% of their previous sizes and all the fly-by-night developers disappear, we can say we have reached the bottom.
The quantity is going to be replaced by the quality and the wheel will start rolling again.
Buy to rent is a very good business in Dubai. And the flippers are moving that direction

 

[paul66]

As quoted by our friend on SkyScraperCity Forum...

"As we approach a new year, can I just take a moment to remind all you investors that if there's one thing that can be said about Dubai that held true 10 years ago, that held true before the "credit crunch", that holds true today, and will most certainly hold true in 2010, it's that it was, is, and will remain, a FABULOUS place to live and work.

Those of us who live and work here may not be as numerous as we were a couple of years ago, but we sure as hell are far more numerous than we were a decade, or even just 5 years, ago.

For those investors who own high quality properties in good locations and who are prepared to rent at realistic prices, you'll always have tenants.

(apologies, post influenced by a few beers)"

Absolutely fantastic mate.
Heres to everyone like me who wants to build a future in Dubai and the UAE :beer:

 

[Brendan R]

As quoted by our friend on SkyScraperCity Forum...

"As we approach a new year, can I just take a moment to remind all you investors that if there's one thing that can be said about Dubai that held true 10 years ago, that held true before the "credit crunch", that holds true today, and will most certainly hold true in 2010, it's that it was, is, and will remain, a FABULOUS place to live and work.

Those of us who live and work here may not be as numerous as we were a couple of years ago, but we sure as hell are far more numerous than we were a decade, or even just 5 years, ago.

For those investors who own high quality properties in good locations and who are prepared to rent at realistic prices, you'll always have tenants.

(apologies, post influenced by a few beers)"

Absolutely fantastic mate.
Heres to everyone like me who wants to build a future in Dubai and the UAE :beer:

good luck guys for your future, maybe you can even do business together, I sell to you, you buy from me. Beware of inbredness (and indebtdness) though even if you're desperate and can't find a buyer.

Just a question Paul, you are not involved in real estate speculation, are you?

When you talk about "building" (I shouldn't use that word, it's not very popular now) a future, what is your specialty? Are you a doctor? a food trader? a fisherman?

Best of luck, I'm sure you will contribute many bricks (oh no, not again) to Dubai's future :smokin:

 

[Darius]

Re: ideas vs groans

Hi all again,

Has anybody numbers about Dubai economy to share? What percentage of GDP is generated by constructions (speculations) and what from real economy?

Thanks

 

[paul66]

Most of the GDP comes from Re-Trade activity (e.g. the ports) and always had done in the past.
Real Estate will now only contribute to a tiny percentage going forward, rather than the 25-30% previously.

 

[devaya]

No i absolutely do not agree

OK ....I am back after another session of hibernation. You were warned then and you are still warned, DUBAI IS FINISHED!!! EVERYONE AGREE??

NO I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT AGREE ...
There are countless places in the world that do not have what Dubai has to offer.
Dubai is being criticized because the expectations are too high. Having travelled extensively around the world, I feel Dubai is a comfortable place to live or invest ... The Dubai World debt issue is no big deal, they have asked for an extension of repayment, they did not ask for the amount to be written off. Tell me, how many people pay their debts on time ? and, is it a crime to ask for an extension for repayment ? Watch out ... Dubai may recover much faster than the critics think. Valuations seem very realistic and there could be an unpreceedented population shift.

 

[paul66]

Absolutely agree Dubai is NOT finished, of course it is going through a rough time - but hey most countries are going through rough times.

Mr Stumbled probably works for The Times or The Guardian and always has and always will be a Dubai basher no matter what happens. He is jealous he does not live there, work there, or even invested there. You can stay in Hibernation...you need it in your cold country.

Like I have said before and still say it now... Dubai WILL be back much faster than people expect.

:top:

Paul

 

[Kjarkata]

Just hope that Dubai is back much faster rather than later as many investors are in deep crisis.

 

[devaya]

Mr Stumbled probably works for The Times or The Guardian and always has and always will be a Dubai basher no matter what happens. He is jealous he does not live there, work there, or even invested there. You can stay in Hibernation...you need it in your cold country.
Paul

Yes I thought so because he was bashing Dubai below the belt :argh:
All the money that has been spent on development of Dubai is there for everyone to see. It is not going to evaporate or vanish into thin air. It is there for you, me and everyone to enjoy whenever we choose to ...
What has happened may be a blessing for the Emirate as the much needed re-allignment will take place. It would only end up being better in the very near future. I have to admit that I am very impressed with whatever development has taken place in the last 5 years. That was money well spent by the rulers.
Summer temperatures in Dubai go above 50 C. This is spoken about negatively, things like ... "who would want to live in a hot and dry place like Dubai". I prefer Dubai to places where temperatures go down to -15 C. 50 C is better than -15 C, at least you can still move around without your battery acid or radiator coolant freezing. You don't have any ice to shovel off the drive way or get holed up at home for a few months It is a no-brainer to choose Dubai for a place to live, work or do business.

 

[Brendan R]

Yes I thought so because he was bashing Dubai below the belt :argh:
All the money that has been spent on development of Dubai is there for everyone to see. It is not going to evaporate or vanish into thin air. It is there for you, me and everyone to enjoy whenever we choose to ...
What has happened may be a blessing for the Emirate as the much needed re-allignment will take place. It would only end up being better in the very near future. I have to admit that I am very impressed with whatever development has taken place in the last 5 years. That was money well spent by the rulers.
Summer temperatures in Dubai go above 50 C. This is spoken about negatively, things like ... "who would want to live in a hot and dry place like Dubai". I prefer Dubai to places where temperatures go down to -15 C. 50 C is better than -15 C, at least you can still move around without your battery acid or radiator coolant freezing. You don't have any ice to shovel off the drive way or get holed up at home for a few months It is a no-brainer to choose Dubai for a place to live, work or do business.

you should start a club of like you minded people.

Why not call it something like the "Sauna Lovers" with the motto:
50 C or nothing,
always higher we fly,
long live the ruler,
blessed be his vision for Dubai is no mirage
I shall bend over in front of the Maktoum,
for screwing with sand is my price to pay
:thrasher::thrasher::thrasher: :elefant::elefant::elefant:

 

[devaya]

you should start a club of like you minded people.

Why not call it something like the "Sauna Lovers" with the motto:
50 C or nothing,
always higher we fly,
long live the ruler,
blessed be his vision for Dubai is no mirage
I shall bend over in front of the Maktoum,
for screwing with sand is my price to pay

Ooooh oooooo .... there goes another Dubai basher.
Hey Dude, it is not so bad. Dubai has fulfilled it's promises to many. I have met scores of
very satisfied people who live in Dubai or have invested in Dubai. Yes I do agree that many have lost, but what do you expect when those who have missed the bus decide at all costs to board it at the next stop.
As an investor, you may have bought at the peak only to realise that your investment had halved in less than three months. It is definitely a bad feeling, but look at other parts of the world, especially the western world, prices have more than halved. What makes Dubai different ???
I'll tell you ... things happened too fast, the growth, rise in realty prices and many took it for granted that it would never stop. When the inevitable happened and people lost, anxiety turned into anger. With a correction, very much in par if not better than many other parts of the world, people still continue to bash Dubai with a vengance. This is not fair :thumpdown:
Make realistic comparisons before thrashing ...
Screwing the sand might be a good idea afterall, and for sure I would not mind bending over in front of Makhtoum ...

 

[Kjarkata]

I do agree with you & impressed with the development that has taken place in Dubai in the last 5-6 years, but at whose cost, definately not at the cost of the rulers. The development was mostly financed by foreign investors who have now been kicked out with new laws which do not allow them to live in Dubai in their own houses as now they do not get residence visas which were earlier promised at the time of contract. I am talking amonout the investors who have their hard earned money invested in dubai property with less the AED 1M and/or do not have a continous sourse of income of over AED 10000 per month can not live in their own owned houses/apartments in dubai as they are now not entitled for a UAE residence visa.
Lets see who benifited, surely the rulers of dubai, they got the investers money to build and full fill their own dreams of luxury being paid for by investors, Now if they try to sell, no one wants to buy it or they get offers of almost 25% of their invested amount. In the end you can not live there and you get not get your money back?
What kind of country or rules exist in dubai as you can not even challenge the promises written and signed in the contract by companies mostly owned by the rulers of dubai.
I think dubai is totally F**k*d in terms of law..... and the way those sheikhs treat others on the streets of dubai

 

[paul66]

I do agree with you & impressed with the development that has taken place in Dubai in the last 5-6 years, but at whose cost, definately not at the cost of the rulers. The development was mostly financed by foreign investors who have now been kicked out with new laws which do not allow them to live in Dubai in their own houses as now they do not get residence visas which were earlier promised at the time of contract I am talking amonout the investors who have their hard earned money invested in dubai property with less the AED 1M and/or do not have a continous sourse of income of over AED 10000 per month can not live in their own owned houses/apartments in dubai as they are now not entitled for a UAE residence visa.

You are right, if you want to retire in Dubai at the moment, it is not possible for you to stay longer than 3 months, unless you keep going in and out of the country. However, I dont know any country anywhere in the world that entitles you to get residency after purchasing property. If you know any please tell us. Laws need to be clarified and communicated better you are correct, but this will come in time no doubt, remember the middle east is still developing.

I have bought property in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Ajman, I plan to move there by the end of the year, and I can live in my own apartments wherever I choose as I will be setting up my company in Ajman, so me and my family will have a right to live and work anywhere in the UAE.

If you are going to be working in the UAE, then theres no problem, you have the right to live there. But if you are still under 65 but cant be bothered to work anymore then you can join BrendanR :smokin: and all the scroungers/Larger louts/drunken twats/murderers/knife stabbers/druggies living off benefits in the UK uke: Good luck in your life.

Paul

 

[devaya]

I do agree with you & impressed with the development that has taken place in Dubai in the last 5-6 years, but at whose cost, definately not at the cost of the rulers. The development was mostly financed by foreign investors who have now been kicked out with new laws which do not allow them to live in Dubai in their own houses as now they do not get residence visas which were earlier promised at the time of contract. I am talking amonout the investors who have their hard earned money invested in dubai property with less the AED 1M and/or do not have a continous sourse of income of over AED 10000 per month can not live in their own owned houses/apartments in dubai as they are now not entitled for a UAE residence visa.

Ok, let us look at certain facts ...

(1) Regarding the Residence Visa, several people were given and the same was renewed after the three year validity. There were no issues regarding renewal contrary to what is being blogged by Dubai bashers. When the Govt. turned around to say that a Residence Visa was not compulsary with property purchase, many looked at this as deciet. But the reason for this needs to be understood ...
There were nationals of a particular country that were using this as an opportunity to migrate into the UAE. This caused certain security concerns for which the Govt had to act. Barring nationals of any country (excepting Israel) from possessing a UAE residence visa could raise diplomatic issues and also send wrong signals to the international community. The rulers did not indulge in such, rather they chose to remind investors that that purchase of property did not necessarily guarantee a UAE Residence Visa. Technically, the DNRD was given the sole authority to decide on who was eligible and who was not while protecting the security and integrity of the UAE. Developers were marketing their properties with the promise of a residence visa while DNRD was clear on their stand right from the beginning. I really do not see a law being changed rather being wrongly interpreted and the rulers being wrongly blamed. The new Residence Visa rules were made for the absolute reason of security. Tell me, why would the rulers want to chase away investors ? How will they benefit from it ?? I also ask ...
IN HOW MANY COUNTRIES CAN YOU BUY PROPERTY AND BE ENTITLED TO A RESIDENCE VISA ???

(2) When the freehold law was passed in 2002, a lot of people rushed to invest. They were not forced or compelled in any manner to come and invest in Dubai. There were many other places where they could have put their money. Their choice to invest in Dubai was out of free will and the confidence that Dubai would grow into a modern trading hub / financial center. The Govt definitely invested a lot of money on development, it is not just investors money. Before the freehold law was passed, Dubai was reasonably well developed. Why would people come to invest on off plan properties or properties which did not exist ? There was surely something that appealed to many. Unfortunately the global recession has taken its toll on the entire globe, including Dubai. Give it some time, once you hear about recovery in the US and Europe, you will see Dubai regaining its shine.
Dubai should not be looked at as - I MADE MONEY or I LOST MONEY.
The fundamentals are in place, with minor re-adjustments here and there it should be a BINGO.

 

[Brendan R]

If you are going to be working in the UAE, then theres no problem, you have the right to live there. But if you are still under 65 but cant be bothered to work anymore then you can join BrendanR :smokin: and all the scroungers/Larger louts/drunken twats/murderers/knife stabbers/druggies living off benefits in the UK uke: Good luck in your life.

Paul

Thanks Paul for associating me with a very interesting social group. You forgot to include money launderers in all their colours and shapes of which Dubai is rife but at least you avoided suckers.

Fyi, if you are European, you can move and live freely anywhere in Europe without the need for a visa.

Regarding investing in Dubai, wait for the rules to change for good and check how they are practically applied.

Wait for Maktoum's public apologies and his declaration of allegiance to the new Abu Dhabi rulers.

Investing in Dubai now is like catching a falling knife. Wait for distressed investors to start liquidating their real estate assets. If it's cheap at 50c to the dollar, wait for it to get to 20c. If you buy it then, put it in the drawer and wait. Either it will revert to sand or maybe you will have a castle.

Just don't bet the house on Dubai. Be a good investor/risk manager.

And remember, Dubai has no more momentum, but at some stage it will exhibit value. That's when my 2 cents will come into play.

Best of luck in your endeavors, Paul of Arabia

:knuddel:

 

[financier888]

freehold expats

You are right, if you want to retire in Dubai at the moment, it is not possible for you to stay longer than 3 months, unless you keep going in and out of the country. However, I dont know any country anywhere in the world that entitles you to get residency after purchasing property. If you know any please tell us. Laws need to be clarified and communicated better you are correct, but this will come in time no doubt, remember the middle east is still developing.

I have bought property in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Ajman, I plan to move there by the end of the year, and I can live in my own apartments wherever I choose as I will be setting up my company in Ajman, so me and my family will have a right to live and work anywhere in the UAE.

If you are going to be working in the UAE, then theres no problem, you have the right to live there. But if you are still under 65 but cant be bothered to work anymore then you can join BrendanR :smokin: and all the scroungers/Larger louts/drunken twats/murderers/knife stabbers/druggies living off benefits in the UK uke: Good luck in your life.

Paul

hi Paul - for a start - Singapore / Malaysia and Indonesia - you can get a residency visa if your purchase property - and can apply for long term visa's if you are over 55 years of age - even if YOU DON"T purchase. In Singapore - there are no age restrictions to getting your PR (5 year) when you purchase. I believe Thailand may also have certain exemptions if you are an expat that purchases a freehold.

In regard to you incorporating in Ajman - not sure if you are intending to live & work there - but you may wish consider incorporating in another emirate - even if it cost you more - I'd do it in Dubai.

good luck on your move
cheers

 

[Prop-erty]

All the money that has been spent on development of Dubai is there for everyone to see. It is not going to evaporate or vanish into thin air. It is there for you, me and everyone to enjoy whenever we choose to ...

Yes, yes, and yes. If you just look at it, you will see just how beautiful it is. We do not invest there because that is not our business right now, but I have no doubt Dubai will go from strength to strength.

 

[oasis2buyer]

you should start a club of like you minded people.

Why not call it something like the "Sauna Lovers" with the motto:
50 C or nothing,
always higher we fly,
long live the ruler,
blessed be his vision for Dubai is no mirage
I shall bend over in front of the Maktoum,
for screwing with sand is my price to pay
:thrasher::thrasher::thrasher: :elefant::elefant::elefant:

You've made my day...very clever!