Adelaide Development

[adelaidebucharest]

Like I said before I have found a british lawyer who lives/operates in Romania. No confusion over phone calls in a different language. He has done insolvency property cases before. All up costs for registering and signing up with the courts for a years /updates on the case approx 850 euros. Obv there will be another cost fee down the road if it appears there is money for us and further negotiations/court appearance are required.

He said there is no point going to all the hearings as the big crediors will be driving the proceedings. Remember we are small fry compared to the banks !

 

[Ian38]

Hi adelaidebuharest,

I purchased an property on Adelaide as everyone else on here. Could you let me know which lawyer you are using to get on the creditors list for adelaide?~

Thanks
Ian

 

[adelaidebucharest]

I dont really want to put his details on the webpage without his permission so call me if u like 07711505500

 

[Ian38]

Hi,

Thanks for your help. I will give you a call tommorrow 28/04/11.

 

[mylesgreen]

Summary

Hmm, right I've just gone through all the recent activity as I haven't really checked in the last couple if months. I had written off the money, but it seems that there might be a slight (<25% ish) of getting some money back, but I would have to go on the creditors list to stand any chance of seeing this money??

Last I heard, SP were going to try and obtain funding through the bank, but I had assumed this was all futile.

My main points are:

1) should we actually all get together to work against SP to obtain some return/compensation.
2) what is the deadline for getting on the creditors list.
3) has anyone actually spoken to SP to get there view.
4) what normally happens if you are on a creditors list. I thought the company is normally so heavily in debt that nothing is left, so the thought if paying another £1k is just another kick In the balls!!

Myles

Ps - to the lawyers who have engaged in playground squabbles...... Really, you want us to trust you with our investments!!

 

[Nicola BSN]

Creditors' deadline for Adelaide

Just a reminder that the deadline for the Adelaide court hearing is 10th May for those of you wishing to get on the creditors' list.

 

[alarprba]

A stupid question?!

Here is something I have wondered about and no-one has yet made any comment on it. When I purchased in Adelaide I paid my substantial deposit NOT to South Pacific, but to the lawyer who transacted my business. All of my money was paid directly to the account of Martinez Echevarria. This company has not delivered for me - nor have they ever given me any indication that my money was passed on to S.P.
I know it sounds naive, but surely if S.P. has not delivered that is the lawyer's problem. My complaint is with the company who took my money into their account and have not delivered anything in return - and THEY (those lawyers) are not insolvent! All my black-and-white records show that all of my money was paid to this lawyer!
Anyhow, that's probably just a naive thought, so I have also, at the last moment, registered on the List of Creditors. I am using a lawyer recommended on the website of the UK Embassy in Bucharest.

P.S. there has been a lot of unhelpful to-and-fro-ing and mud-slinging on this thread mainly involving Nicola BSN. I don't know who you are, Nicola, and don't really care, but there has been a suggestion more than once that you worked for MRI. I think it would be helpful for everyone involved (yourself included) if you would just come clean and answer that question with a yes or a no, as you seem always to have avoided doing that. A clear NO to that question would enhance your position immensely on his forum.

 

[Shape]

Here is something I have wondered about and no-one has yet made any comment on it. When I purchased in Adelaide I paid my substantial deposit NOT to South Pacific, but to the lawyer who transacted my business. All of my money was paid directly to the account of Martinez Echevarria. This company has not delivered for me - nor have they ever given me any indication that my money was passed on to S.P.
I know it sounds naive, but surely if S.P. has not delivered that is the lawyer's problem. My complaint is with the company who took my money into their account and have not delivered anything in return - and THEY (those lawyers) are not insolvent! All my black-and-white records show that all of my money was paid to this lawyer!
Anyhow, that's probably just a naive thought, so I have also, at the last moment, registered on the List of Creditors. I am using a lawyer recommended on the website of the UK Embassy in Bucharest.

P.S. there has been a lot of unhelpful to-and-fro-ing and mud-slinging on this thread mainly involving Nicola BSN. I don't know who you are, Nicola, and don't really care, but there has been a suggestion more than once that you worked for MRI. I think it would be helpful for everyone involved (yourself included) if you would just come clean and answer that question with a yes or a no, as you seem always to have avoided doing that. A clear NO to that question would enhance your position immensely on his forum.

Martinez has a case to answer because the story from South Pacific is that MRI received a big commission. Logically, this must have been deducted from what you paid via Martinez otherwise you would have paid to the developer.... and surely Martinez as your independent lawyer should have disclosed this?

Some material on the internet mentions a figure of 16% commission on the full price, which would have meant more than half of the deposits was not going to the developer but to MRI. If this is correct, this would mean that the prices of the properties already contained 16% on top of the cost price plus the developers profit, so the actual value of the property was already in negative equity at this point. Would you have bought had you known this? Should Martinez have warned about this? If Martinez did release the commission payment to MRI, it completely compromises the idea of "independence" of the legal advice.

The harder question is what your damage was, as the developer failed to build and went insolvent against the background of a bust property market.

 

[alarprba]

Martinez has a case to answer because the story from South Pacific is that MRI received a big commission. Logically, this must have been deducted from what you paid via Martinez otherwise you would have paid to the developer.... and surely Martinez as your independent lawyer should have disclosed this?

Some material on the internet mentions a figure of 16% commission on the full price, which would have meant more than half of the deposits was not going to the developer but to MRI. If this is correct, this would mean that the prices of the properties already contained 16% on top of the cost price plus the developers profit, so the actual value of the property was already in negative equity at this point. Would you have bought had you known this? Should Martinez have warned about this? If Martinez did release the commission payment to MRI, it completely compromises the idea of "independence" of the legal advice.

The harder question is what your damage was, as the developer failed to build and went insolvent against the background of a bust property market.

Thanks for those thoughts, Shape. That has prompted me to contact Martinez with the very reasonable request that they demonstrate to me what they did with my money that I paid into their accounts - by way of copies of receipts to any party or parties to which they passed it on, along with the return of any portion of it which they have still retained. Surely (i) a company such as theirs should have such evidence and (ii) As it is my money I have a right to see those records. If this yields any information I will post it on the forum. Not holding my breath!

 

[Shape]

Thanks for those thoughts, Shape. That has prompted me to contact Martinez with the very reasonable request that they demonstrate to me what they did with my money that I paid into their accounts - by way of copies of receipts to any party or parties to which they passed it on, along with the return of any portion of it which they have still retained. Surely (i) a company such as theirs should have such evidence and (ii) As it is my money I have a right to see those records. If this yields any information I will post it on the forum. Not holding my breath!

Yes, you can tell Martinez you have been asked to prove the payment of the deposit by the liquidator of South Pacific!

 

[tomas]

Here is something I have wondered about and no-one has yet made any comment on it. When I purchased in Adelaide I paid my substantial deposit NOT to South Pacific, but to the lawyer who transacted my business. All of my money was paid directly to the account of Martinez Echevarria. This company has not delivered for me - nor have they ever given me any indication that my money was passed on to S.P.
I know it sounds naive, but surely if S.P. has not delivered that is the lawyer's problem. My complaint is with the company who took my money into their account and have not delivered anything in return - and THEY (those lawyers) are not insolvent! All my black-and-white records show that all of my money was paid to this lawyer!
Anyhow, that's probably just a naive thought, so I have also, at the last moment, registered on the List of Creditors. I am using a lawyer recommended on the website of the UK Embassy in Bucharest.

P.S. there has been a lot of unhelpful to-and-fro-ing and mud-slinging on this thread mainly involving Nicola BSN. I don't know who you are, Nicola, and don't really care, but there has been a suggestion more than once that you worked for MRI. I think it would be helpful for everyone involved (yourself included) if you would just come clean and answer that question with a yes or a no, as you seem always to have avoided doing that. A clear NO to that question would enhance your position immensely on his forum.

Alarprba:
I have many thoughts about what you write on this forum.
As far as I remember, Martinez was a lawyer recommended by MRI. If I am correct, I feel sorry for you.
My experience with MRI and related parties is not good. MRI and their representatives was incompetent and I don't look at them as serious.
I know previous MRI-representatives are now doing business under new names. I've been contacted by a company called Ethos Overseas, trying to sell me a project in Bulgaria. I don't believe in their project, as it is just like MRI, once again.
We didn't use the lawyer recommended by MRI, as we had our own lawyer, independent from MRI and South Pacific. For us it is important to have our own lawyers working for our best interests, and I don't regret our choice.

Actually, I believe that Nicola is a previous MRI-representative even if she don't want to say so.
I think you did right using a lawyer recommended by the UK embassy.
I have heard terrible stories about contracts involving Martinez (?),this spanish lawyer recommended by MRI, and if they are true, I hope you are not one of them. My experience with MRI and their representatives gives me more reasons to believe that the rumours is true, then not.
Good luck to you!

 

[alarprba]

Martinez

Alarprba:
I have many thoughts about what you write on this forum.
As far as I remember, Martinez was a lawyer recommended by MRI. If I am correct, I feel sorry for you.
My experience with MRI and related parties is not good. MRI and their representatives was incompetent and I don't look at them as serious.
I know previous MRI-representatives are now doing business under new names. I've been contacted by a company called Ethos Overseas, trying to sell me a project in Bulgaria. I don't believe in their project, as it is just like MRI, once again.
We didn't use the lawyer recommended by MRI, as we had our own lawyer, independent from MRI and South Pacific. For us it is important to have our own lawyers working for our best interests, and I don't regret our choice.

Actually, I believe that Nicola is a previous MRI-representative even if she don't want to say so.
I think you did right using a lawyer recommended by the UK embassy.
I have heard terrible stories about contracts involving Martinez (?),this spanish lawyer recommended by MRI, and if they are true, I hope you are not one of them. My experience with MRI and their representatives gives me more reasons to believe that the rumours is true, then not.
Good luck to you!

Yes, Tomas, you are right! Martinez was the lawyer recommended by MRI - a foolish move by me to use them, but back in those days I just thought that MRI were acting in my best interests, so was prepared to be guided by them.
On MRI's advice I also paid an amount at the same time to Capital Financial Partners to provide me with a mortgage when the time came. They took my money and told me later that they could not provide a mortgage, but insisted that they had "provided a service" by telling me that they could do nothing for me!!!! and that's what I was paying for. A very very nasty man in CFP whom I probably shouldn't name on the forum dealt with me in the later stages. Darragh MacAnthony (MRI) told me he knew this man personally and "couldn't believe" that such gentleman had treated me in the manner that he did!!
A horrendously bad experience all round - and there is a lot more that time or space don't permit me to tell!

 

[tomas]

Yes, Tomas, you are right! Martinez was the lawyer recommended by MRI - a foolish move by me to use them, but back in those days I just thought that MRI were acting in my best interests, so was prepared to be guided by them.
On MRI's advice I also paid an amount at the same time to Capital Financial Partners to provide me with a mortgage when the time came. They took my money and told me later that they could not provide a mortgage, but insisted that they had "provided a service" by telling me that they could do nothing for me!!!! and that's what I was paying for. A very very nasty man in CFP whom I probably shouldn't name on the forum dealt with me in the later stages. Darragh MacAnthony (MRI) told me he knew this man personally and "couldn't believe" that such gentleman had treated me in the manner that he did!!
A horrendously bad experience all round - and there is a lot more that time or space don't permit me to tell!

I know about CFP as well. What you wrote is exactly what they did to other people as well, so you are not alone.
What you wrote about MRI and CFP is exactly why I feel sorry for you having used the services from Martinez. Even if we haven't used Martinez, I have some difficulties to believe that Martinez is any better then MRI or CFP.
Ethos Overseas is a company with ex-employees from MRI, and they have been in contact with me as they have started selling projects in Bulgaria. I refused their project of course after looking into their prospect. I don't know about any links between Ethos Overseas and BSN Legal / Nicola, but there are some similarities in their way of doing business / appears to me.

 

[alarprba]

Adelaide Payments

Following a few attempts, I have now received documentary confirmation from Martinez of my payments towards the Adelaide development. 60% of my money was paid by them to South Pacific. The other 40% was paid directly to M.R.I.
Three years ago Darragh Macanthony of M.R.I. personally assured me that M.R.I. did not have my money, but it that it was with the Developer!
I know an attempt is being made in court in relation to the South Pacific money, but what about the very substantial amounts paid to M.R.I.? Is there no legal redress regarding this money?

 

[Shape]

Following a few attempts, I have now received documentary confirmation from Martinez of my payments towards the Adelaide development. 60% of my money was paid by them to South Pacific. The other 40% was paid directly to M.R.I.
Three years ago Darragh Macanthony of M.R.I. personally assured me that M.R.I. did not have my money, but it that it was with the Developer!
I know an attempt is being made in court in relation to the South Pacific money, but what about the very substantial amounts paid to M.R.I.? Is there no legal redress regarding this money?

Well done for getting the information out of Martinez. Martinez obviously are strangers to the concept of representing your best interests as they could only pay money across to MRI if they had a contract with MRI...which in turn would mean that from day one they were in a position of conflict of interest and not at all "independent".

Applying an ounce of common sense it was obvious that the buyers were being ripped off because the money you thought would be spent on construction was partly spent on an enormous MRI commission. This 14% commission will also have filtered through into the contract price thereby inflating the price against the value. As such, the developer and MRI knew that the apartments were overpriced, which meant that buyers hoping to complete with bank finance would always have been struggling even if the market had not collapsed.

Martinez should have disclosed the payment of a 14% commission to MRI, as this might well have affected the willingness of buyers to enter the pre-contract, had they known about it.

 

[tomas]

Following a few attempts, I have now received documentary confirmation from Martinez of my payments towards the Adelaide development. 60% of my money was paid by them to South Pacific. The other 40% was paid directly to M.R.I.
Three years ago Darragh Macanthony of M.R.I. personally assured me that M.R.I. did not have my money, but it that it was with the Developer!
I know an attempt is being made in court in relation to the South Pacific money, but what about the very substantial amounts paid to M.R.I.? Is there no legal redress regarding this money?

What you write is interesting. It confirm what I have thought for a long time.
I believe that a good lawyer would have looked after so that all the amount paid by the purchaser would have been considered as a downpayment of the purchaseprice. This should have been included in the presale agreement.
After what I know and have heard about MRI, Martinez and CFP I am surprised about the spanish system. I find it hard to believe that it's acceptable to do business as they have done in such a big EU-country.

 

[atul]

Bankruptcy

Has anyone else received a letter from A&A Consultants IPURL (Romania) who are appointed as judicial liquidator for the Adelaide Development.

Does anyone know or had dealings with this firm?

Has anyone requested a contract cancellation with SC Adelaide Residence and put there names in the list of creditors. What are the cost implications?

Thanks
Atul