Adelaide Development

[alarprba]

Court hearing for Adelaide

I have had word from our lawyer that the deadline to be added to the First List of Creditors for South Pacific is 15th February 2011. Obviously they have tangible assets but after the bank and tax office have had their share it is going to be difficult, for anyone listing as a creditor after this deadline, to get any of their money back.

I would urge you to contact your lawyer to be added to the first list immediately.

If you are being told otherwise (by a lawyer with a conflict of interest, perhaps) go onto the British Consulate website and get another lawyer and make sure you have all your paperwork ready to send. I'll keep this forum on my desktop for a while in case anyone needs more info.

I have paid a deposit on a property in Adelaide development, and am convinced that, not only are we going to lose all our money, but there are still people around who would like to take even more money from us in our distress. I am really sorry that I have got to the point where I just can't trust anyone in this matter any more. A company called BSN Legal (Nicola BSN, do you work for them??) contacted me to inform me of this upcoming hearing regarding Adelaide with the 15th Feb deadline. They insisted that they knew all the details - obviously they didn't, as this hearing has nothing to do with Adelaide. They contacted me repeatedly over a couple of weeks, trying hard to persuade me to sign up with them - of course, they also needed money from me! (surprise! surprise!). I let them talk to me on a number of occasions (it was real hard-sell stuff),but, because of the bad experiences I have had previously, I dug in my heels and refused to take up their offer. Strangely, they became angry and somewhat nasty with me! Has anyone else out there said NO to them? And what has been the response? Is this a company we should be wary of?

 

[Nicola BSN]

Dear Alarprba

Yes I am part of BSN Legal. Your experience of dealing with our staff doesn't sound quite right. We record our customer calls for training and quality control purposes so if you would like to make a written complaint to customer services they can recover your WAV file and listen to the conversation between you and the member of staff in question. We take any complaint very seriously so please do get in contact.

As far as the information we have relayed - it has come directly from the Romanian lawyers. There was a deadline coming up and we originally put the word out to all South Pacific owners but as we were given more information we continued to update our posts. If you read all the posts here, as the information has been coming through we have been able to be more specific.

Admittedly, when the news first came through about the deadline, the concern was to reach as many of those affected as possible. We posted on as many sites as we could and advised people to contact their own independent lawyer or ask at the Consulate for some recommended ones - we did not ask them to come direct to us.

If we panicked people in Adelaide we apologise but the deadline for that is not too far away and it's never a good idea to leave everything to the last minute. No one has to go through us to get on the Creditor's List and those of you in Adelaide have now been made aware of the pending deadline and are free to sort out your own legal representation in plenty of time - just don't use the one recommended by the agent.

Alarprba, please do get in touch with customer services if you feel you have a complaint and it will be dealt with. I can't really comment more than this as, if you just post negative things on the internet, it doesn't really help us get to the bottom of your issues.

Just to clarify a point with you, you asked a marketing company to pass on your details to us - which is why we responded to that request and called you. We don't cold call and only respond to requests for a call.

 

[neill d]

Alarpra I think it is OK to "post negative things on the internet"; it is a forum and you are looking for other people's experience of BSN.

I do welcome BSN's posts as they give us information we may otherwise not have.

I've managed to avoid going legal which some other investors in Sydney did during the problems there (I noticed that BSN was speculating that Sydney might be next after Melbourne and Adelaide; not realising that Sydney is finished and handed over). I have had various ongoing issues but have kept a dialogue with South Pacific (I have found them decent people, believe it or not) and with patience and persistence I have had a service from them.

If I was with one of the other developments I would talk to SPC Customer Services and try to find a solution, such as transferring to another development, such as Avalon (the head of sales says they have funding for this quick build development),Sydney or Melbourne (!) - he claims they are going to resume in a month or two (perhaps sorted out issues with Joint Venture Partner) and it may be worth finding out the truth in this. He didn't have anything to say about Adelaide, which may be the most problematic development.

Hope this helps.

 

[MichaelMurcia]

Legal Costs

Can anyone confirm how much it should cost to register on the Creditors List? I have had one quote but need to compare it with others. I am unwilling to throw more money in the vague hope of getting less back as a Creditor!

Many thanks!

 

[neill d]

When I spoke to CEO South Pacific last week I asked him about Melbourne/Adelaide - he said the insolvency action had forced partner and/or bank to allow Melbourne to restart shortly and he was hoping for the same result for Adelaide

 

[adelaidebucharest]

Insolvency quotes

I and another member have been sourcing around for quotes for insolvency hearings. Several crazy quotes of around 2000 euros and 1000 euros. 800 Euros is the most competitive (including all VAT) which includes a status of all court hearings for a year (cost alone is 200 Euros plus VAT)
I'm afraid the bigger quotes are both from companies who publises on these boards. We found an independant Britsh lawyer who works in a Romanian practice, rather than a sales person who then uses local lawyers (taking a cut).

 

[alarprba]

Adelaide List of Creditors

I have just today received an email from the lawyer (Martinez-Echevaria) in Romania asking for 2000 Euro in 2 instalments to add me to the list of Adelaide creditors. Does anyone know (i) whether I need to pay this huge amount to be added to the list; (ii) whether there is any hope of getting this fee back (never mind my substantial deposit). Is this just more money to a bottomless pit?

Has anyone out there considered pulling together a list of Adelaide creditors in order that we might act jointly?

I have one other (simplistic) thought. I never actually paid any money directly to South Pacific. My records show that all of my money was paid to the lawyer. Can I not pursue him for the money (even through the courts)? If he paid my money to South Pacific, surely that is HIS problem! Sounds too simplistic, but can anyone tell me why it doesn't work that way?

 

[David howe]

Insolvency Cost

A realistic price for Insolvency proceedings is 750 euro, several people have come to us having said they have been asked 1500-2000 euro, sorry, but this figure to me is indicitive investors being treated in the same manner as they were at the time of purchase.

Anyone else interested in instigating proceedings please contact me as a matter of urgency as the next hearing is 15 April.

 

[steve01]

A few questions Re Adelaide insolvency

How true is it that the insolvency action is to force the bank to lend at more favourable terms?

If so does this mean the insolvency won't last long?

Was this actually the case with Melbourne and did it work?

If none of the above are true how long would it take as a crediter to recover any money and how far along is the development now. Would it be worth anything when auctioned off what sort of cents in the Euro would be a realistic amount to end up getting paid?

Any information would be greatly appreciated especially from anyone who has actually spoke to SP regarding this.

 

[MichaelMurcia]

Adelaide Insolvency

Many thanks for the advice on legal costs for the insolvency process.

I was interested to read the comments that South Pacific might be trying to re-finance and 'sort something out'. Does anyone have anything in writing from them - any offers to move etc. Does the Avalon project have funding? Has building work started there? South Pacific no longer respond to me so I cannot get any firm confirmation. I suspect that there is a great deal of wishful thinking and that it is best to register as a Creditor. I would regret it if they eventually go bankrupt and I am not on the list!

The comment from alarprba about the lawyers is relevant. There are many very unhappy people there and a few are energetic enough to start a legal action. This may be the only way to get any money back so I suggest everyone unhappy with their agent and the legal advice they were given join in. You will have to do a search on the agent since I have not posted 5 times on this site.

 

[neill d]

Re Steve's questions below -

If the developments are not completed then the investors - which includes joint venture partners and banks - will lose money in an insolvency. From talking to the CEO of South Pacific I gather that the joint venture partner for Melbourne is now willing to finish the development rather than go through insolvency proceedings and this partner had been the block on completing. Apparently Melbourne will resume. I think this took a few months of insolvency action. I would have thought it would take a year to finish Melbourne (all snagging done and utilities connected) judging by how Sydney went.

With Adelaide the block apparently is the financing bank (a different bank to Melbourne). The CEO said they were no longer returning his calls so he is repeating the tactic of insolvency proceedings. However I think creditors should register themselves, just in case. Adelaide is less complete than Melbourne and the original intention of South Pacific according to conversations was to finish Sydney, then Melbourne and then Adelaide.

Re Michael's questions - the CEO said that he had attracted investor finance for the Avalon project which meant he could get bank funding as well and was intending to start construction in the near future.
On 'moving' apparently people who could pay in full were moved to the Sydney development on favourable terms in comparison to if they originally had invested in Sydney. People could move into other developments when complete I would have thought.
It's easy to contact South Pacific by phone.

 

[MichaelMurcia]

Thanks Neill,

Unless I have something in writing from South Pacific then this is all too uncertain for me. I have decided to register as a Creditor and explore the other legal option.

 

[steve01]

Thanks Niell

I think registering as a creditor is the sensible thing to do. Any further information you recieve Re this as it develops would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[pash]

HELP..

“Insolvency procedure – SPG ADELAIDE
The Bucharest Tribunal admits the request of the debtor SC ADELAIDE RESIDENCE SRL (former SC SOUTH PACIFIC GRUP CONSTRUCTII ADELAIDE SRL). Opens general insolvency procedure against the debtor. The debtor shall maintain the admnistration right – which consists in the right of managing its activity, administrating the goods in its patrimony and dispose of them, right that shall be borne under the supervision of the judicial administrator.
Sets the following deadlines: 1. Term for registering the debt admission claims over the patrimony of the debtor – 10.05.2011
Sets term for continuation of the procedure for 14.06.2011”

Do i go ahead and pay the lawyers fee, Or stay put as we are already a Creditor as we have proof of payment and contract?

Looking forward to your reply...

 

[pash]

South Pacific (Melbourne Residence)- insolvency

Is this the same as Adelaide though?

 

[David howe]

HELP..

“Insolvency procedure – SPG ADELAIDE
The Bucharest Tribunal admits the request of the debtor SC ADELAIDE RESIDENCE SRL (former SC SOUTH PACIFIC GRUP CONSTRUCTII ADELAIDE SRL). Opens general insolvency procedure against the debtor. The debtor shall maintain the admnistration right – which consists in the right of managing its activity, administrating the goods in its patrimony and dispose of them, right that shall be borne under the supervision of the judicial administrator.
Sets the following deadlines: 1. Term for registering the debt admission claims over the patrimony of the debtor – 10.05.2011
Sets term for continuation of the procedure for 14.06.2011”

Do i go ahead and pay the lawyers fee, Or stay put as we are already a Creditor as we have proof of payment and contract?

Looking forward to your reply...

Two Questions Pash


1. How much is the lawyer asking you?

2. What makes you think you are already registered as a creditor. Purchase contracts I have seen are not registered contracts.

 

[Nicola BSN]

Hi Pash
David is right: just having proof of payment etc. is not enough. You are not automatically entered onto the list. Your lawyer has to physically register you on the creditors list and monitor the progress regularly. It's also important to try and get on the list as soon as you can as there is a pecking order to payouts (government taxes and bank loans always seem to be top of the list!).
Obviously, don't use the lawyer that you got through your agent (if this applies to you) but check out the Consulate recommended lawyers, for example.
I would recommend getting on to it right away, though. Best of luck.

 

[adelaidebucharest]

DO NOT LISTEN TO NICOLA from BSN

There is not a first come first serve principle in insolvency procedings. This is just another tactic for getting you to use BSN (2000 euros by the way)

Use a local lawyer, you will be registered as a creditor. The way you get paid depends on your contract not how far down the list you are.

This has been confirmed by two local lawyers I have spoken to

Cheers

 

[Nicola BSN]

Dear Adelaidebucharest

Actually, according to our lawyers there is a need to get registered as a creditor sooner rather than later as there are deadlines for hearings. In fact, there is one for Adelaide (2nd one) on 10th May and we have been advised that people should not leave it until the last minute as we have Easter around the corner. And the government and banks are ALWAYS first in line with their hand out before money is made available to other creditors - I think that's a universal truth.

We don't charge 2000 euro and I believe I recommended the Consulate as a source of independent lawyers - not BSN Legal. Perhaps you missed that recommendation?

We have had some feedback from our lawyers today (information that we give out free as we get it from the lawyers adelaidebucharest) and it appears that this is not going to be an ordinary insolvency as the South Pacific set-up is slightly unusual in that Sydney is completed and South Pacific are taking an active role in the insolvency proceedings and asset distribution.

Right now I can't comment further as our lawyers need to report to our clients first regarding their meeting with South Pacific - which they are doing today, I understand. Once all our clients have been informed I can come back to you all on the matter and give you an update on what's happening at our end.

 

[adelaidebucharest]

Yes you do charge 2000 euros because that is what you quoted me over the phone !!!!!!...after telling me the insolvency is like a que, first come first serve.. and its not !

I'm sorry but i dont belive you. I'm afraid you sound like another Legal Independance