Sharm Bride resort - EGP payments

[in2tense]

Hiya Steve

No i'm afraid it was an extra £11,000 ENGLISH they wanted.

We were over in October to do handover and as we were fairly happy we went to the office to sign and pay maintanence fees and this is when we were presented with a letter saying that the apartments had all been built bigger than planned and so we had to pay for the extra sq meterage and the cost of the extra meterage of our 2 bed apartment came to £11,000.

There were 9 other couples over at the same time to handover of either 1 or 2 bedroomed apartments and not 1 of them got completed because they all recieved a similar letter, one owner actually punched the developer after a very heated argument.

A few Soliciters got involved and an "Independant" surveyer was employed to measure some of the apartments only to find that they were all actually UNDER-SIZED !!!

When this was brought to the attention of the developer he then stated that we had to pay for the pathways inbetween the blocks as this was included in our meterage and that any overhangs on the apartments had been included in the meterage as well as the stairway.

After quite a few meetings with soliciters and the developer with the threat of police being brought in the developer dropped the extra meterage charge but has made it quite clear that he will not pay any late fees and this includes to people that are now over 2 years late.

The developer is obviously short of money and there is actually no date for the hotel opening, so how has this happened ??

Sharm Bride has only sold 70 private apartments ( confirmed by Sharm Real Estate ) as he wanted to keep the rest to use as hotel suites and the general opinion is the money he raised from the sale of these 70 apartments has paid for the hotel and apartment blocks to be built, now because of the weakness of the £ the developer has run out of money and decided to sell another 10 apartments to make up the short fall, however with the way the global real estate market has been there were no takers so the developer tried to pull a fast one and tried to get extra money from the 70 owners and this hasn't worked.

He is now relying on Maintainence fees to carry on work and to be fair the residential side is really looking great ( if anybody needs photos taken Jan 2010 supplied by kind people who went to do handover then e-mail me at [email protected] and I will send you a link to them ) however I have been told that the pool is unlikely to be filled this year but people staying are using the lovely pool on the hotel side.

It's all become a bit of a mess but as Shaun says it is probably easier to pay the maintainence fees and let him use them to complete the project.

I certainally hope to complete in March but you never know what is waiting in the wings with these people.

Also Sharm Real Estate no longer have the sole rights to sell on this complex.

I hope to meet a few of you out there soon

Cheers

Darren

 

[Filitheyo2010]

Apartment hadover

Hi guys,
New to the forum but have read some of it before going over the Egypt.
Just got back from Sharm yesterday having taken handover of the apartment (not without hassle but all sorted by the developer's brother Mr Tarek who was at the hotel). Hotel was open with mainly Egyptian guests, soft opening?, with a British couple staying for the week for their handover. Offer of the weeks stay in the hotel and the weeks nile cruise was still available despite the email earlier which said it ended Dec 2009. Pool is still not completed as the bridge need to go on, bar finishing etc. Consultant from SRE did a great job, Adam, talking to the brother. He said that developer has used the sale of the apartments to pay to finish the hotel as the revenue from his nile cruise boats has dropped dramatically due to the recession. It is 3 years in March since we signed for our apartment and Nabq has had lots of development from then,new Hard Rock is great addition to raise value well as the usual fast food outlets.

 

[srey]

Thanks for all the info Darren. Doesn't sound good, does it? Tempted to cut losses and sell up, but, as you say, with current climate that's probably not a viable option.

 

[in2tense]

Once everything settles down I honestly believe that these will be some of the best apartments in Nabq.

I've looked at most complexes and havn't seen any that are set up as nice as Sharm Bride.

Even with all the problems ( and every complex seems to have them ) I am still very happy with our investment.

It's just that the Egyptian developers seem to think we are easy targets to extract money from and this again is most of them not just the developers of Sharm Bride.

 

[Filitheyo2010]

Is there a specific forum here for Sharm Bride owners/info, as whenever I ask for a search it comes up with nothing found, whereas Sierra brings up numerous results and I have read quite a lot of info about Sierra but not Sharm Bride.
Andy.

 

[King_john]

Local surveyor or architect to measure up floor area

Hello,
Can someone advise me the contact details of a RELIABLE local surveyor or architect who can measure my apartment at Sharm Bride. Cristina from SRE (who I have given power of attorney) has been trying to arrange one but each time an appointment is made Christina advises me they don't turn up (or maybe more likely I suspect they are probably turned away at the gate by the developer!).
The developer advised me that my apartment (no 50B) is 68 sq m. instead of 61 sq m and I want to check this before doing final handover otherwise I will fall under their handover requirement to pay them extra money for extra meterage when I resell.
SRE who is handling the snagging have advised that snagging is complete and just a final clean is required. So all that is left is for me to get a professional measurement done.
I asked Clare to assist from Sharm Holiday Care in getting a surveyor but she declined to assist unless I took on her full snagging service and she also refused to work with SRE (why I don't quite understand) - but if I take Clare on then I have to arrange a power of attorney for her services which just adds further weeks onto the process. Can anyone assist?

Also Cristina just sent me this update on the extra meterage situation saying I don't have to do the survey now but personally I feel the extra meterage situation should be sorted out before handover rather than after:

"A piece of very good news. I have received today from one of our lawyers the official confirmation that the Sharm Bride developer has agreed not to charge anything from present owners for any extra meters. The deal is that only if the owner re-sells his/her property to another person, the new purchaser will pay for the full meters of the property at the original price that the first owner paid. This extra money will go to the developer, but again only in case of a resale.

This means that right now we don't need to rush in doing a survey – which, I'm sorry to say, it is proving quite difficult to obtain, as we need a government-licensed engineer to do the job and there is not many around which are reliable and available. In fact the last one that we contacted never showed up at the appointment neither called up or texted t o say that he couldn't make it, and this is not acceptable.

Basically you will still need to do the survey in case you want to re-sell your flat, but this can be done at a later date. For now I would suggest that we go ahead with the completion of the flat and handover. We'll still look for a good licensed engineer."

 

[rumbaba]

'one owner actually punched the developer after a very heated argument'

Cheers

Darren

What is going on? No one deserves to be punched because of an arguement. What were you doing when this was going on? Did you offer to present yourself as a witness for this assault as I am sure you would have wanted someone tostand up for you should you have been in the developers position.

It is common practice in egypt to for the pathways inbetween the blocks as this was included in our meterage and that any overhangs on the apartments had been included in the meterage as well as the stairway. These areas are considered service areas that supply the apartment and that all owners use. Therefore it is included and the space is usually divided by the apartments in the building.

You are better off paying for this as opposed to not. Otherwise you will have an apartment but with no right to use the stairs and building entrance to get to it nor the the use of the areas where the electricity and plumbing go through.

 

[bracken]

"What is going on? No one deserves to be punched because of an arguement. What were you doing when this was going on? Did you offer to present yourself as a witness for this assault as I am sure you would have wanted someone tostand up for you should you have been in the developers position."


Rumbaba I think you are getting a bit carried away with yourself here. Reading intenses post never led me to think he was there and witnessed it. I think he was just telling you about an incident that happened there.

I also think your attempt to justify the developer asking for £11,000 extra for pathways and that its better to just pay it is laughable.

 

[rumbaba]

I was offering advice and an opinion.

If you dont want to pay for the accessways in the building that is up to you. If you think it is laughable then you really should do your research on this.

Dont forget you are not dealing with the UK but a different country with different practices. I advise you ask other agents in the area about the payment for the common areas before commenting and potentially putting others at risk.

I would advise everyone to take a look at their contracts and see if the communal areas are included or there is a mention that you have access to them. Otherwise, if you have not contributed to the value of them and they are not in your contract you may have difficulty if not for access but if you want to sell. The same would also be true in the UK if you were buying a flat and access to the communal areas was not included in the lease.

 

[bracken]

The developer has tried to pull a fast one on all the owners because of his shortfalls and your telling people to just pay for the extra meterage because its common practice in egypt. Great advice. The only thing that seems to be common practice in egypt is developers trying to take advantage of westeners buying property in egypt.

 

[ERG Experts]

I was offering advice and an opinion.

If you dont want to pay for the accessways in the building that is up to you. If you think it is laughable then you really should do your research on this.

Dont forget you are not dealing with the UK but a different country with different practices. I advise you ask other agents in the area about the payment for the common areas before commenting and potentially putting others at risk.

I would advise everyone to take a look at their contracts and see if the communal areas are included or there is a mention that you have access to them. Otherwise, if you have not contributed to the value of them and they are not in your contract you may have difficulty if not for access but if you want to sell. The same would also be true in the UK if you were buying a flat and access to the communal areas was not included in the lease.

Dear Rumbaba,

Of course advice is always appreciated, and the beauty of advice is that you can take it or leave it. In this particular case, considering all parties involved, lawyers and agents, are concurrent that the developers are genuinely and unfairly trying to rip off the owners and are advising them not to pay, I think this is the advise that is being taken.

I should also mention that it is laughable to justify an extra 11,000 British Sterling for an apartment, when on signing the contract all meterage was included in the cost, included communal pathways and overhangs, and also that the contract states "an area MORE OR LESS" as off plan property is rarely the exact size as stated in the contract. In the case of Sharm Bride he was not originally claiming extra money for communal areas, the developer was stating that after construction the internal area of the apartments were larger and so owners must pay extra, it was only after owners rightfully fought back and hired independent surveyors did he change his story to being communal areas.

Given that lawyers are also agreeing that this situation is ludicrous, I do not believe you are at all justified to tell these unfortunate owners to "do their homework" and check their contracts, the lawyers know these contracts better than anyone else and know what they are saying when they tell people not to pay.

So, as another agent in the area (which you advise owner's to consult),I can advise by saying these comments are not putting anybody at risk, but actually are very helpful for other owners facing this situation to know that they shouldn't just abide by developer's threats and stand their ground, and handovers have been completed successfully without paying the extra and extortionate charges.

 

[rumbaba]

Leave a lawyer on their own without trying to make sense of what is going on for yourself may prolong things and end up being costly. I do not beleive you are at all justified in telling these people who may have further development costs on them to leave things to their lawyers and spend even more money without trying to know their rights and their contracts for themselves before embarking on this course of action.

No one will have a greater interest in their investment than the owners themselves - not the lawyers who probably have other jobs to deal with.

People should do their homework before taking any action as many owners do not live in Egypt. Trying to reach a solution as opposed to a stalemate or lengthy legal action is always a better solution - whether in the UK or abroad.

You mention that owners are not put at risk. Do you know how long legal action in egypt takes or how much it costs? Is it not true that legal action can take years?

 

[ERG Experts]

Leave a lawyer on their own without trying to make sense of what is going on for yourself may prolong things and end up being costly. I do not beleive you are at all justified in telling these people who may have further development costs on them to leave things to their lawyers and spend even more money without trying to know their rights and their contracts for themselves before embarking on this course of action.

No one will have a greater interest in their investment than the owners themselves - not the lawyers who probably have other jobs to deal with.

People should do their homework before taking any action as many owners do not live in Egypt. Trying to reach a solution as opposed to a stalemate or lengthy legal action is always a better solution - whether in the UK or abroad.

You mention that owners are not put at risk. Do you know how long legal action in egypt takes or how much it costs? Is it not true that legal action can take years?

Yes, I know exactly how much lawyers cost and how long court processes take, but so far none of this has been necessary. Again, you should stop telling people to do their homework, when I have been working in this industry in Egypt and know very well all details, and moreover specific details of this specific case. Maybe in other resorts lengthy court battles would pursue and legal action is not the best solution, but I am talking about this very case and the advice for these very owners.

I am not telling anybody to leave anything to their lawyer, simply the advice is to not pay the costs the developer is insisting on, and not succumb to threats which aren't justified. The purchaser's lawyer can confirm all details in the contract and confirm the owner's rights as part of the already paid service, and in most cases I know the lawyer has attended the handover and the handover was done, with relatively little hitches, AT NO EXTRA COST.

My advice for owners, which is the advice the other owners have already been giving and I am just confirming on your behalf as you seem to think agents should give advice, is that owners should not pay the extra costs when taking handover, and should they need the assistance of either their lawyer, or other people such as Clare, then they should take it. Both have been invaluable in this.

 

[Alan Cockayne]

Buyer Protection

No one will have a greater interest in their investment than the owners themselves.
People should do their homework before taking any action as many owners do not live in Egypt. Trying to reach a solution as opposed to a stalemate or lengthy legal action is always a better solution - whether in the UK or abroad.

In this particular case Sharm Bride developers are out of order. ERG makes clear reasons as to the legalities of the contract and how owners should resist these bullying tactics. I fully support their comments.

It took easy measuring to find out that the company are trying to extort more money. These bad practices spoil the whole industry. It asks the question "why foreigners should look to buy in Egypt if they are constantly going to be manipulated by devious developers and their management companies."

It is preventable. Most investors join these forums to connect to other owners for advice after they've bought. Some look for information to help prior to buying. Many buy with no preconception or knowledge of the pitfalls or even joining these forums so are left to the elements.

Here is the best tip for those readers or their friends thinking of buying anywhere overseas....

Once you have made your selection, ask for a copy of the developer contracts of sale and present it to your independent lawyer. Have them clearly stipulate as Addendums to the contract your full requirements and conditions, not only in its construction and completion but during your lifetime as owner. These should be handed to the developer before any reservation or deposit . If your first choice of property will not adhere to your wishes, take your custom elsewhere to those that will.

Once that document is signed by both parties it becomes a legal obligation. Once it is notarised by the authority it becomes legally binding. Only then should deposits be transferred. However, agents and developers give around 30 days to conclude a sale and as it may take well over that period to receive your own stamped copy of the contract as proof of joint conditions of sale, you are again pressured into making a deposit transfer or lose your reservation fee.

Please resist.
There are more properties in Egypt than clients. Your custom is more valuable to them than losing you to others. They are desperate for sales. Your cash is leverage, once you've parted with it you no longer have power over their commitment to you.

For those who rushed to buy without knowledge, I'm afraid you will get this undue pressure even after hand-over as the contract you may have naively accepted favoured the management because you did not scrutinise it. Whatever contract you end up with passes to your successor so without cutting corners or doing it "on the cheap" try and do it right first time.

We may then see fewer problems in the future and less scandal on our threads.

Alan.

 

[rumbaba]

Yes, I know exactly how much lawyers cost and how long court processes take, but so far none of this has been necessary. Again, you should stop telling people to do their homework, when I have been working in this industry in Egypt and know very well all details, and moreover specific details of this specific case. Maybe in other resorts lengthy court battles would pursue and legal action is not the best solution, but I am talking about this very case and the advice for these very owners.

I am not telling anybody to leave anything to their lawyer, simply the advice is to not pay the costs the developer is insisting on, and not succumb to threats which aren't justified. The purchaser's lawyer can confirm all details in the contract and confirm the owner's rights as part of the already paid service, and in most cases I know the lawyer has attended the handover and the handover was done, with relatively little hitches, AT NO EXTRA COST.

My advice for owners, which is the advice the other owners have already been giving and I am just confirming on your behalf as you seem to think agents should give advice, is that owners should not pay the extra costs when taking handover, and should they need the assistance of either their lawyer, or other people such as Clare, then they should take it. Both have been invaluable in this.

Calm down! Leave people free to say what they want to say and act in the way that suits them best - whether it follows your opinion or not.

 

[bracken]

rambaba you are exactly the type of person that infuriates me. You jump into a discussion throwing your bit in and then when you are shot down you resort to the old "everyone is free to say what they like"

I should have realised what kind of person you were when you went overboard regarding intenses comment about the owner punching the developer. I just wish one day your in a position like these owners and we will see where your research and homework gets you.

 

[rumbaba]

rambaba you are exactly the type of person that infuriates me. You jump into a discussion throwing your bit in and then when you are shot down you resort to the old "everyone is free to say what they like"

I should have realised what kind of person you were when you went overboard regarding intenses comment about the owner punching the developer. I just wish one day your in a position like these owners and we will see where your research and homework gets you.

A bit more maturity would be appreciated. Everyone is free to say as they please and others should not try to bully people in doing otherwise.

Best of luck negotiating with a developer that has been punched! I think your posts have been rude and out of order.

Your polite nature acts as a great advertisement for your company. All the best!

 

[bracken]

rumbaba you are getting carried away yet again. My company???? I dont have a company to promote so my impolite nature is of no concern to anyone apart from you. I think you maybe have a bit too much time on your hands. All the best and fingers crossed you understand some day what is happening at sharm bride.

 

[OXONIANS]

handover

We bought our apartment (No 24C) in Sept 2007 and have not been back to Egypt since, but do plan to return to Sharm soon as we are now ready to order the furniture package. Would forum members advise us whether it is best to actually fly to Sharm to do this or has anyone selected a furniture package on line? We have read through the comments in the Forum and it seems that Clare's Holiday Homecare seems to be the most reliable company to undertake the snagging. Would anyone be able to give us a contact telephone number or e:mail address so that we can approach her?

A friend of ours came back from Sharm last week and informed us that the residential area of the development still looks very much like a building site and the hotel looks like it is still not open. This has made us quite nervous as we are now confused as to whether we should pay the maintenance fee. After reading the comments posted on the forum, it is obvious to us that we are very much out of touch with what is going on. Can anyone help us with what we need to do now as the Sharm Real Estate Agents have stopped making contact with us?!!

 

[shaun]

Hi Guys,

Right, just got the hand over contract through, in response to the extra space/charges issue.....PLEASE MAKE SURE WHOEVER IS DEALING WITH YOUR HANDOVER MAKE THE FOLLOWING CHANGES TO THE CONTRACT!!!


We are dealing with SRE and they took care of all this.


Kind Regards


Shaun