off plan purchase at crystal spa aparthotel - eurosilex

[dannyo]

hi spview
thankyou again for your advice, i am in complete agreement with your advice i have being down this road before on another development and i am going to use the same team very good very professional and get results,but i will leave posts for others who may get some help from our experience,i am not going to jeperdise anyones investment,everybody is free to take what ever course of action they see fit, but as you know the developers play a division or two above mostof the investors and in dealing with them we must raise our game and put a few pro players on our team again many thanks for your advice.dannyo

 

[dannyo]

hi jan and cris
thank you also for your advice, but this tread is not about one development the one you speak of golden valley there are other posters talking about crystal spas which has not even started and another development called eternity which i do not know the status of but if its the one i have heard of its being in trouble for a long time. i am not putting myself up to be mosses and to lead the masses out of egypt,the position here is quite simple the developer is going to be in breach of contract and in this current climate we need to discuess the whole situation with them not the developer changing the rules as he sees fit and we are sopposed to sit down and take it, what their expenses got to do with anything , it hardly amounted to the rest of the money per sq metre and if so its nothing to do with us,at this point this discussion is about have we fate in the developeror not,so jan and cris with respect if you have some real good advice for the posters maybe bring the less experenced investers up to speed as to whats going on in bulgaria and how this game really works, it would really
make life much simplier and your lawyers that you have used in the past how can people get some information on them if they decide they would like to use them, also maybe some information about their costs because in my estimation every investor needs one in this case, i do take your point about the legal system i agree nobody wants to end up in court but we have to let the devoloper know he can not walk on us, again many thanks dannyo

 

[Jain and Chris]

Afternoon dannyo

I didn't really give any advice. I am not a lawyer and not in a position to assist in legal terms. I just voiced what I thought was a balanced opinion, trying to see both sides of this, rather than going off on one tangent alone.

I also referred in general to all developments across the world - and did refer to Golden Valley at the same time.

It is clear that the developer will become in breach of contract, which I would believe is why they are trying to find a suitable solution. I believe, the buyers should be looking to negotiate a suitable solution too. It is in everyone's best interest to find a good result for all parties.

That is why I think taking a 'let the developer know he cannot walk on us' approach is perhaps not the best way to look at this. It needs a subtle negotiating hand to produce the best result.

Their expenses are of course to do with the whole thing. Cost of infrastructure and other such things are of paramount concern - not only to the developer in terms of costs but also to buyers in terms of what the end complex will be like.

There is nothing to say about "how this game really works". This is a common situation across the world and hundreds of developers and buyers find themselves in this awful situation.

I have posted in many threads the details of the lawyer who writes for us but here are her details again:
Asja Mandjukova, GPNG Law Firm, Sofia, Bulgaria
Email : [email protected]

Alternatively, if you would like to know more about her and the law firm, why not visit our site and read some of the articles they have written. Indeed some of the articles may be useful anyway.

Her fees are not my business, that is between her firm and their clients. However, I do know that she has reduced her costs to British buyers this year - as she said to me, "some of them stand to lose their homes, so how can I ask for too much".

Getting independent legal advice is a must in this situation. Only then can you decide if you are going to proceed to court or endeavour to negotiate to reach a settlement.

All best wishes

PS : Isn't it funny when someone says 'with respect' you just know something is coming which has no respect at all

 

[yam600]

Eurosilex

hi jan and cris
thank you also for your advice, but this tread is not about one development the one you speak of golden valley there are other posters talking about crystal spas which has not even started and another development called eternity which i do not know the status of but if its the one i have heard of its being in trouble for a long time. i am not putting myself up to be mosses and to lead the masses out of egypt,the position here is quite simple the developer is going to be in breach of contract and in this current climate we need to discuess the whole situation with them not the developer changing the rules as he sees fit and we are sopposed to sit down and take it, what their expenses got to do with anything , it hardly amounted to the rest of the money per sq metre and if so its nothing to do with us,at this point this discussion is about have we fate in the developeror not,so jan and cris with respect if you have some real good advice for the posters maybe bring the less experenced investers up to speed as to whats going on in bulgaria and how this game really works, it would really
make life much simplier and your lawyers that you have used in the past how can people get some information on them if they decide they would like to use them, also maybe some information about their costs because in my estimation every investor needs one in this case, i do take your point about the legal system i agree nobody wants to end up in court but we have to let the devoloper know he can not walk on us, again many thanks dannyo

Dan,

Were in a situation that nobody has accounted for. To be fair the developer has been very good in communicating with me.

The developer is trying to rescue a bad situation and it is not in their interest to shut up shop. I understand for Crystal Spar investors it is worse, however they need everyone to support them in order for the whole thing to move on. As soon as they get finance it will start up again. It's a Global thing.

Pulling out now could be worse. If they go down everyone goes down. For me it's still a good project and in a few years will return.

Cheers

 

[dannyo]

hi jain chris
thank u again for your advice, just one thing bothers me about your balanced opinion, you are a director of a magazine that takes advertisements from developers like the one we are having a problem with honouring our contract so how can you give a balanced opinion.you also say you do not really give advice but at the bottom of the tread you state
independent advice and information for owning property in bulgaria so which is it .dannyo

 

[dannyo]

hi yam
your rite it is not in their interests to close up shop their still a few euros to be got from the investors

 

[Jain and Chris]

Oh dear dannyo, I thought when I posted that you would have a go at me. As I said, anyone who says 'with respect' is going to follow that up with something disrespectful. Of course we take advertisements from companies; how else could we pay journalists and photographers? I suppose you feel the same about the timesonline, this site and other publications who take adverising? It can't be helped about ads if you want a quality editorial product. The one does not have to impinge on the other, I know as I have been working in publications for over 30 years. I doubt there are many businesses these days who could operate without any income.

Our site certainly does give advice, we have professionals such as lawyers, accountants, estate agents, currency brokers, etc., who write for us. I was only trying on here to put forward a personal view. I'll leave you to it as it obviously isn't a good idea trying to offer you anything other than a rant or siding with you about a developer you have a problem with.

Best wishes

 

[dannyo]

thank you again jan
Iam so sorry i hurt your feelings again,i let you have the last word on this after all you are the moderator, i have no hidden agenda,i am just one more investor caught up in a bad situation i personally know where im going and im not worried one bit and i have a fair idea where it will finish as you do with your experience,i would rather you gave these investors advice or at least point them in the right direction,i have being in that position, a lot of them find themselves in now and its a lonely place, my posts were merely to give them hope and this should work out thats all,I think someone like should ask the developer to come to this forum for a week or two chat with investors tell them whats going on and put peoples minds at rest and let the investors see and talk about the problems together,just a suggestion,thank you for your time my rant is now over, bye bye dannyo

 

[yam600]

hi yam
your rite it is not in their interests to close up shop their still a few euros to be got from the investors

Dannyo,

You obviously could not afford it in the first place. Or you thought you could make a quick euro. Well those who support it will reap the rewards in 5 years. I bet you never went out there to view the place.

I can send you the views from my apartment if you like. We went in November 06, it was cold but sunny, good wine and great coast line.

Give them a chance.

Yam600

 

[Tidalflow]

Contribution Appreciated

Oh dear dannyo, I thought when I posted that you would have a go at me. As I said, anyone who says 'with respect' is going to follow that up with something disrespectful. Of course we take advertisements from companies; how else could we pay journalists and photographers? I suppose you feel the same about the timesonline, this site and other publications who take adverising? It can't be helped about ads if you want a quality editorial product. The one does not have to impinge on the other, I know as I have been working in publications for over 30 years. I doubt there are many businesses these days who could operate without any income.

Our site certainly does give advice, we have professionals such as lawyers, accountants, estate agents, currency brokers, etc., who write for us. I was only trying on here to put forward a personal view. I'll leave you to it as it obviously isn't a good idea trying to offer you anything other than a rant or siding with you about a developer you have a problem with.

Best wishes

Hello Jain and Chris,

Your contribution to this forum was very welcome by myself. It would be a great shame if you did not continue to follow developments and comment from time to time. I think at some stage we may need to place an advert ourselves to locate
the many investors who have bought into Eurosilex developments!

Best wishes

 

[Jain and Chris]

Hi tidalflow - thanks - and yam600 - good point

Of course I shall still continue to read the posts, follow any developments and chip in if possible with anything worthwhile. It is a horrid situation that people are in and I feel for all of you. The situation with each development is different - they are at various stages of construction and therefore different options are open to be negotiated between the buyers and the developer.

When dannyo says "i have a fair idea where it will finish as you do with your experience,i would rather you gave these investors advice or at least point them in the right direction", well, I don't know where it will finish even with my experience but I do have a feel that negotiation is the best way right now. After all, the developer could have walked away from it all by now, not made any proposal nor any contact.. which would have left people in a potentially much worse position. That's why as I said, independent professional advice is crucial at this moment. I cannot offer any more advice than that, only a lawyer can tell you what in their expert opinion is the wisest thing to do to get what is best for you out of this, the pros and cons of any action you may wish to take...

I think dannyo also meant that he/she wanted me to contact the developer "to come to this forum for a week or two chat with investors tell them whats going on". Well, I really don't see why any business should come onto an open public forum and discuss their company's affairs, particularly financial matters. I understand the developer has written to each buyer with proposals. Therefore, matters are being dealt with and it is up to the buyers now to respond and negotiate from there, as a group or individually.

Tidalflow, I wish I could help more but not being a lawyer, I'm not best placed to do more than comment as best I can and point people to taking professional advice.

All the very best

Oh, forgot... as an aside I notice a press release today from an Irish company which has set up a 7 million euros fund to buy property on the Black Sea Coast which distressed sellers are endeavouring to get rid of. The reason for this is that they believe the 5 to 7 year outlook for Bulgaria is good and tourism will continue to rise, thus pushing the price of property up. They obviously believe that the long-term situation for Bulgaria is good !
Also, for any petrolheads amongst us, Bulgaria Motorcycle Federation has signed a five year deal with Dorna to host a round of the MotoGP in Bulgaria, starting 2012. Valentino Rossi is acting as a consultant on the track design. That should pull in the tourists too !

 

[merlia]

Thanks for the info. I'll post it on the blog to let everyone know.

 

[nor123]

Golden Valley

I’ve been following up the discussion over the last 2 days and it seems that there is a consensus on at least 1 count – an urgent need for a professional legal advice. So, those from the GV project who are interested to act as a group please e-mail me to [email protected]. I’ll make a list of potential participants and distribute it back.
The second point that has been voiced on a number of occasions is a proposal to meet in London to make a discussion more concrete, specific and practical. Personally I think we should do our best to persuade the top management from Eurosilex to attend such a meeting. The GV buyers please e-mail me on that as well.

 

[dannyo]

Dannyo,

You obviously could not afford it in the first place. Or you thought you could make a quick euro. Well those who support it will reap the rewards in 5 years. I bet you never went out there to view the place.

I can send you the views from my apartment if you like. We went in November 06, it was cold but sunny, good wine and great coast line.

Give them a chance.

Yam600

good man yam
you stay drinking that wine and stay believeing in eurosilex and dont forget sign the new contract and then take your tablets, sleeping tablets because your going to have a lot of restless nights before you can look out at that beautiful view and i hope your not talking about the view up hill because a friend of mine is building apartments there, hope yours is top floor,oh and by the way if eurosilex could honour their contract with me i am in a position to have payment in full with them with in seven days, hope that answers your question

 

[Lysos]

I have no involvement in Buigarian property, I could not see it as a viable investment, however, I have followed this thread with interest. Incidentally, it appears not to be unique; property forums are awash with stories of unfinished developments & dodgy dealers (Bulgarian Dreams being a case in point) not just in Bulgaria, but Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Cyprus, Dubai & goodness knows where else (Caribbean, Brazil perhaps ?). The question I would have is, "What incentive does Eurosilex have to complete ?". I can't see any. They already have your 40% & they aren't going to sell any more units in the current financial climate. As for legal action, do they have any assetts to claim against ?. Would it be cost effective to take action ?. The view from the neutral corner is that you've been screwed and will lose whatever monies paid so far. Please don't waste any more.

 

[llezah]

Hi all ,I am new to this site , so glad i found it !. we also have paid 70% of a property in Gloden Valley , Back in 2006, with the promise it would complete in Sep 08 . We got the letter and new contract and feel very worried as does everyone . ... i would like to be part of any meetings or pm but dont know how .
I feel that we shouldnt be too hasty and think very carefully before we take any legal action...
Ok so they are having problems , but they have always returned our calls and been very happy to talk to us, they always reassured us that the project was guaranteed by the bank however what i want to know is what is guaranteed by the bank ?
i am sure it will all be ok if everyone thinks before they act.

 

[yam600]

I have no involvement in Buigarian property, I could not see it as a viable investment, however, I have followed this thread with interest. Incidentally, it appears not to be unique; property forums are awash with stories of unfinished developments & dodgy dealers (Bulgarian Dreams being a case in point) not just in Bulgaria, but Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Cyprus, Dubai & goodness knows where else (Caribbean, Brazil perhaps ?). The question I would have is, "What incentive does Eurosilex have to complete ?". I can't see any. They already have your 40% & they aren't going to sell any more units in the current financial climate. As for legal action, do they have any assetts to claim against ?. Would it be cost effective to take action ?. The view from the neutral corner is that you've been screwed and will lose whatever monies paid so far. Please don't waste any more.

Lysos, Interesting view. We have not been screwed at all. The company are in business to make money from selling and building property in an emerging market. It is not in there interest to pack up and go.

I have been over there and seen at first hand the area and some of the finished projects, for the money they are excellent value with a good 5-10 year investment opportunity second to none. The problems are fiscal and nothing to do with the company and the location.

Unless you have invested and been to view the projects all comments are speculative and mainly inaccurate. Eurosilex have been very professional and have a good track record. Investors should be patient and hang in their.

 

[yam600]

good man yam
you stay drinking that wine and stay believeing in eurosilex and dont forget sign the new contract and then take your tablets, sleeping tablets because your going to have a lot of restless nights before you can look out at that beautiful view and i hope your not talking about the view up hill because a friend of mine is building apartments there, hope yours is top floor,oh and by the way if eurosilex could honour their contract with me i am in a position to have payment in full with them with in seven days, hope that answers your question

Have you got anything to contribute to this situation or are you just going to continue and post rubbish. Have you been out there? Yes or No?

 

[yam600]

Hi tidalflow - thanks - and yam600 - good point

Of course I shall still continue to read the posts, follow any developments and chip in if possible with anything worthwhile. It is a horrid situation that people are in and I feel for all of you. The situation with each development is different - they are at various stages of construction and therefore different options are open to be negotiated between the buyers and the developer.

When dannyo says "i have a fair idea where it will finish as you do with your experience,i would rather you gave these investors advice or at least point them in the right direction", well, I don't know where it will finish even with my experience but I do have a feel that negotiation is the best way right now. After all, the developer could have walked away from it all by now, not made any proposal nor any contact.. which would have left people in a potentially much worse position. That's why as I said, independent professional advice is crucial at this moment. I cannot offer any more advice than that, only a lawyer can tell you what in their expert opinion is the wisest thing to do to get what is best for you out of this, the pros and cons of any action you may wish to take...

I think dannyo also meant that he/she wanted me to contact the developer "to come to this forum for a week or two chat with investors tell them whats going on". Well, I really don't see why any business should come onto an open public forum and discuss their company's affairs, particularly financial matters. I understand the developer has written to each buyer with proposals. Therefore, matters are being dealt with and it is up to the buyers now to respond and negotiate from there, as a group or individually.

Tidalflow, I wish I could help more but not being a lawyer, I'm not best placed to do more than comment as best I can and point people to taking professional advice.

All the very best

Oh, forgot... as an aside I notice a press release today from an Irish company which has set up a 7 million euros fund to buy property on the Black Sea Coast which distressed sellers are endeavouring to get rid of. The reason for this is that they believe the 5 to 7 year outlook for Bulgaria is good and tourism will continue to rise, thus pushing the price of property up. They obviously believe that the long-term situation for Bulgaria is good !
Also, for any petrolheads amongst us, Bulgaria Motorcycle Federation has signed a five year deal with Dorna to host a round of the MotoGP in Bulgaria, starting 2012. Valentino Rossi is acting as a consultant on the track design. That should pull in the tourists too !

Jain,

Yam600 here I do have a bike and look forward to meeting Rossi and Co. Hope they build a new track near Kavarna. Looking forward to playing golf at the new golf courses as well. Fantastic views.

 

[Lysos]

Yam,

You really do seem to be wearing rose tinted spectacles. No, I am not an investor. Preliminary research was suffice to convince me that property in Bulgaria's coastal & ski resorts was not a viable investment. Vastly overpriced compared to what locals could/would pay; poor standards of construction, vast oversupply and very short potential letting seasons.

You say it's not in their interest to walk away; it most certainly is. They already have a large chunk of purchasers' money and there are no new buyers, so why spend more ?. Also, if the project was viable the banks would lend, but it isn't and they aren't. Why do you think the thieves behind Bulgarian Dreams did a runner leaving clients with unsellable/unlettable properties on unfinished projects ?. My views on Eurosilex are based on this thread; step back and read it with an unjaundiced eye. The develpers/agents have not delivered what you paid for, but they are adept at moving the goal posts (or should that be the tennis courts ?) and fobbing you off with one excuse after another. This and other property forums are swamped with buyers desperate to sell at any price. I feel sorry for the Spanish chap, on another thread, with 10 appartments he's desperate to off-load. Problem is, noone's buying, nor will they be for a long time even at giveaway prices on completed developments.
You say the company is fine but merely suffering a 'fiscal problem' !. Excuse me ?. That's the whole point. People being repossessed in Uk are merely suffering a 'fiscal' problem; so are the banks, the car industry, retailers etc.etc.
A final question, Yam, just how many people do you know planning a self-catering holiday in Bulgaria ?.