Mortgage in Egypt

[vix]

A lot of this misleading info originated from the agents. When I first put down my 10% dep., it was paid to Investors in the Sun. I was asked at the outset how I was to pay, when I said cash, they bombarded me with calls trying to succeed in my agreeing to use the cash to secure 3 properties, on 40% payment, with a promise of the balance being arranged by DPC.
What an awful lot of anguish this has caused to a lot of people.

 

[queenie40something]

Hi all - for those that are interested I have made a post in the lounge in the media thread. It is an article about the Central Bank of Egypt raising its interest rates - 4th time this year.

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Mortgage Product Guide

Our company has sold 5 million GBP in Egypt property in the past five months and we bank with HSBC. I think we would be the first to know if HSBC were offering mortgages to non residents and to the best of my knowledge they are not. Buyers beware! If you are promised a mortgage on completion make sure that you get a personal offer from the bank with the full terms and conditions before you proceed. Don't forget if you accept a promise from a Developer or Promoter it will be YOU searching for the funds on completion, not them. If a Developer is offering a personal finance scheme this is different; just make sure it is built in to your contract and have your lawyer check the terms and conditions.

Hopefully this will clear things up a little! Any Questions please PM me.

 

[Riccal]

HSBC Mortgage

Hopefully this will clear things up a little! Any Questions please PM me.

Hi Adam

Just to clarify, is this mortgage available to non resident expatriates or does the borrower require a work/residence visa.

The last time I spoke to HSBC these basic terms were available but with the proviso that the expat must be an egyptian resident with an applicable visa.

Cheers

Rick

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Mortages in Egypt

Hi Adam

Just to clarify, is this mortgage available to non resident expatriates or does the borrower require a work/residence visa.

The last time I spoke to HSBC these basic terms were available but with the proviso that the expat must be an egyptian resident with an applicable visa.

Cheers

Rick

Hi Rick,

The "foreign national" must mantain a 12 month tourist residency visa for the first year which can be obtained from the Egyptian Consulate/Embassy in London.

Please see previous qoute.

 

[Riccal]

Mortgages

Hi Rick,

The "foreign national" must mantain a 12 month tourist residency visa for the first year which can be obtained from the Egyptian Consulate/Embassy in London.

Please see previous qoute.

Thanks mate

In other words, HSBC will accept a 'notional' residential status in order to complete the paperwork for the mortgage.

Thats certainly an improvement in how I understood it. Have they rolled this out yet cos there are a lot of people completing on this forum who have been told that mortgages are no problem and have been let down. So long as they have a decent credit history this is the answer.

Cheers

Rick

 

[Peter Mitry]

Morgages in Egypt

Hi Rick,

The "foreign national" must mantain a 12 month tourist residency visa for the first year which can be obtained from the Egyptian Consulate/Embassy in London.

Please see previous qoute.

Hi Adam am I right in thinking that 6.9% flat rate is equivalent to 13 or 14% on the reducing balance? Bank rates in Egypt are currently 12.5% so it is difficult to see how a mortgage could be less than this.

Nevertheless it is still a move in the right direction and should help to finance purchases for investors looking to hold for two or three years.

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Mortgages

Hi Adam am I right in thinking that 6.9% flat rate is equivalent to 13 or 14% on the reducing balance? Bank rates in Egypt are currently 12.5% so it is difficult to see how a mortgage could be less than this.

Nevertheless it is still a move in the right direction and should help to finance purchases for investors looking to hold for two or three years.

I totally agree, the introduction of Finance does give this fantastic emerging market the right credibility.

If you check the figures in my previous qoute, I believe your figures to be in the right area.

To give experienced investors a little history lesson, when we are reminded of the introduction of Bulgarian mortgages many moons ago, the rates are virtually on a par with what is currently available in Egypt. As time goes on these will become a lot more competitive.

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Mortgage Credit Check

Thanks mate

In other words, HSBC will accept a 'notional' residential status in order to complete the paperwork for the mortgage.

Thats certainly an improvement in how I understood it. Have they rolled this out yet cos there are a lot of people completing on this forum who have been told that mortgages are no problem and have been let down. So long as they have a decent credit history this is the answer.

Cheers

Rick

Rick,

From the correspondence that I have had, I believe your “Credit Rating” has no bearing on your application for housing finance, as the charge is on the property in Egypt. The ability to afford the repayments is one of the major pre-requisites for finance, so long as the monthly repayment does not exceed 40% of your PROVABLE monthly income you hopefully should have no problems, this of course in addition to criteria quoted earlier.

I am more than happy to answer any questions relating to mortgages for the Lotus Breeze development only.

 

[The Smart Money]

Rick,

From the correspondence that I have had, I believe your “Credit Rating” has no bearing on your application for housing finance, as the charge is on the property in Egypt. The ability to afford the repayments is one of the major pre-requisites for finance, so long as the monthly repayment does not exceed 40% of your PROVABLE monthly income you hopefully should have no problems, this of course in addition to criteria quoted earlier.

I am more than happy to answer any questions relating to mortgages for the Lotus Breeze development only.

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the information.

I am 25, the property I have secured will be complete when im 28, the attachement you posted stated 30-65, do you think this will be an issue?


kind regards

steve

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Mortgage

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the information.

I am 25, the property I have secured will be complete when im 28, the attachement you posted stated 30-65, do you think this will be an issue?


kind regards

steve

Hi Steve,

Your property completes in three years, the mortgage product range and criteria will change and become more open and competitve by the time you complete, currently it mght be a problem but hopefully nearer the time your age should have no bearing on the application. If it is possible consider a older close relative to help.

Good Luck!

 

[Emu49]

Hopefully this will clear things up a little! Any Questions please PM me.

This does look interesting but on reading it carefully it looks more like an application for a loan on property. The term of the loan must be paid off between 3 -15 years. I noticed that it says that the property must be valued, so this suggest that it can not apply to off plan property. Also I heard that before they can give a mortgage the property needs to be registered. In Hurghada, very few properties are registered. I think that having a form that says mortgage application does not actually mean the bank will actually give the mortgage. Has anyone actually received a mortgage from HSBC? That is the real question that we need an answer for.

 

[wemyss1960]

Mortgages In Egypt

The attachment is a 'key features' not a mortgage offer. Basically this
states what you could possibly borrow and the probable costs if you were to
fit all the lending criteria.

I have emailed HSBC to find out if their criteria has changed. Previously
you had to have a work permit and residents visa. I would still imagine that the
property would somehow have to be fully registered.

Please bear in mind that full registration does not allow you to sell for 5 years.

I'm sure mortgages will be available in the foreseable future,so if you plan to keep your property for a minimum of 5 years,can afford the reservation fee and deposit,feel you will fit the affordability criteria,then go ahead with your off plan purchases.

My advice - dont rely on rental income unless it is guaranteed.

 

[NoMoreHotels]

Questions already answered

This does look interesting but on reading it carefully it looks more like an application for a loan on property. The term of the loan must be paid off between 3 -15 years. I noticed that it says that the property must be valued, so this suggest that it can not apply to off plan property. Also I heard that before they can give a mortgage the property needs to be registered. In Hurghada, very few properties are registered. I think that having a form that says mortgage application does not actually mean the bank will actually give the mortgage. Has anyone actually received a mortgage from HSBC? That is the real question that we need an answer for.

If you actually read the previous qoutes you will realise that, this does not apply to off-plan and no suggestion was ever made it does.
The property does need to be registered as the bank does have to protect its interests and keep everything above board.
I very much doubt a bank the size of HSBC will enter into negotiations or market products just for fun.

 

[DanBrunning]

Hi all, i am now finally going on Friday to see although not able to stay in before completion my apartment, E304 in dp1. I too am taking advice on here to visit UL and hear other side of story for myself and then possibly appoint my own lawyer and sort all POA s out there. Possibly get to Giza and Taamir and find out why WWDs new lawyers in Cairo have not furnished them with all relevant plans and duty paid documents to allow the valuations to go ahead to enable mortgages. Seems quite a simple exercise on face of it to collect papers and take to Taamir who state they are ready to lend once valuation is done. Looking forward to actually seeing in the concrete so to speak, this apartment of mine...well almost as long as it has all relevant permission papers, planning, duties paid etc to be able to allow full registration and ownership...hence why mortgage company are not doing anything till they have the papers themselves to check. Understandably really only the way i see it is either there is a problem with these documents being produced in order or...no one has got off their butt to physically go to Cairo, get papers, go to Giza, see Taamir, Taamir to get their valuer straight out there, tick the boxes and allow mortgage and completion. I understand mark, new director at WWD is out there as i type this and hopefully is the one doing the leg work and there isnt any hidden drama that United lawyers seem to have jumped on and ultimately not registering ownership for. But i will report on Mr Raffatt at United Lawyers story for those that are interested, i personally have no issue with him at this time even if WWD have fallen foul of him. Although emailing him asking him to explain what the issue is has not resulted in a reply? which if he is standing on some high ground would have thought perfevt to shout about? As for renting and rental pools...think il just be happy when all is said and done as that seems a far off hurdle for those of us awaiting a mortgage agreement....Incidentally, i purchased through a company in Portsmouth, Our Home Abroad who have always kept a regular contact and tried to answer my questions and concerns despite telling me a lot of agents have washed their hands somewhat of WWD for its customer care and dealings so far so have no complaints with my agent but it is more than refreshing to see just how much time, concern and feedback Neil at Rivermead has given to me and others via the forum and made effort to have more lengthy conversations with WWD.... Regards dan

 

[wemyss1960]

Mortgages

How are the Taamir mortgages progressing?

 

[wemyss1960]

Hi Dan

Everyones legal completions will happen individually mainly due to their personal circumstances with funding and progress on their apartment/snagging issues etc. With regard to the Egyptian Mortgages - I first completed a mortgage application to Egyptian Mortgage Alliance in January after legislation had been passed in Egypt for foreign nationals to be offered mortgages on their investments in the country. Egyptian Mortgage Alliance went quiet however when i did get hold of them they assured me everything was in order and my application was fine. The very next day I then received a letter from WWD confirming they had sourced another broker to provide mortgages, namely Diamond Lifestyle and that all applications would be reclaimed from Egyptian Mortgage Alliance. The timing of this letter I feel is convenient to the timing of Alam Kempsons appointment at WWD as director. He has links to Diamond Lifestyle as he founded the company and still acted as co-director (i believe, however don't quote me on that). However, I am unsure if you have been alerted to the plane incident in May? Alan Kempson was on board a private plane in brazil with the founder/chairman of WWD (unsure of specific title) Sean Woodhall. Around this time (i'm not insinuating anything suspicious here) Diamond Lifestyle went in to liquidiation as victims as the current credit crunch. Up to this point my contact at Diamond Lifestyle was Steve and every week that passed I had no answer on my application and it was apparently due for underwriting which never happened, however I was reassured/misled in believing the wait was down to Taamir mortgage group due to their lack of experience in dealing wth these mortgages. This went on for around two months when i caught wind WWD were no longer dealing with Diamond Lifestyle and i assume Steve was made redundant. Jacqui Bunn then confirmed she was processing all mortgage applications and bringing them in-house. In a conversation I had with her, she stated the mortgage group are 'ready and waiting to offer these mortgages to all applicants and had just been waiting on application forms', which was contrary to what Steve had told me. I had paid my initial fee to Egyptian Mortgage Alliance and WWD confirmed that would be reclaimed from them and paid to Diamond Lifestyle, when WWD brought applications in-house, I questioned Jacqui Bunn to which she confirmed that my fee had NOT been reclaimed from EGyptian Mortgage Alliance, so i am owed £264... a figure i paid for over 4 months of overwhelming stress for which i did not even gain any mortgage. There were times I had to consider selling my car to raise the money for my last installment as I have already taken out a personal loan for the first parts plus furniture, due to the credit crunch I was deemed too much of a liability to be lent further funds. I also have no home in the UK to secure any borrowings against. My mother offered to take out a loan for me and on the third attempt she was approved and thanks to her I'm now able to complete. I would make a suggestion to you and that is to cut your losses on your egyptian mortgage application unless of course it is your only option! This has been going on since before Christmas and I do not feel WWD's naivety in thinking it would be a straightforward option for purchasers, has helped matters. I was led up the garden path for a long time. I do believe that these mortgages will be available at some point but you must be mindful of the fact this is all knew to bankers/authorities in Egypt. They are still developing in a relatively new investment market.

Do not worry that you have not legally completed, your purchase is proven provided you have the necessary acknowledgements of payment from WWD. I've still not legally completed and by the sounds of it we're not the only ones. It will happen eventually.

With regard to the latest rumours instigated by United Lawyers in Hurghada, WWD have confirmed to me that these rumours are false. I have a copy of a letter sent by EL Riad (the construction company) confirming WWD have paid them and have continued to make payments to them on time. I also have a copy of a letter from solicitors acting on behalf of WWD which was sent to United Lawyers, which in its context requests United Lawyers cease any such allegations regarding WWD's financial status. WWD also confirmed verbally that they have no court cases against them.

I had granted United Lawyers Power of attorney in acting on my behalf, seeing my purchase through to legal transfer of ownership. However it was confirmed to me WWD would be sourcing a new lawyer to complete legalities on behalf of purchasers. If you have already granted United Lawyers power of attorney i would suggest you call WWD immediately come Monday morning. They have my original purchase contract as well as POA. If not, you either need to source an alternative lawyer or use the lawyer WWD recommends.

Donna

To all owners requiring a mortgage

How is the Taamir mortgage progressing?

 

[LADY MUKK]

Mortgages

To all owners requiring a mortgage

How is the Taamir mortgage progressing?

I'M STILL WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING!!! GRADUALLY GOING ROUND THE BEND BUT LEGALLY STILL OF SOUND MIND FOR THE TIME BEING BUT FOR HOW MUCH LONGER WHO KNOWS, I NEED A HOLIDAY BUT HAVE TO SAVE MY HOLIDAY TIME TO GO AND SORT ALL THIS OUT AND SO I AM ALSO WAITING AND WAITING FOR THAT AS WELL, I THINK I SHALL FOLLOW NEILS EXAMPLE OF LAST WEEK AND GET A BIG BIT PI**ED!!!!!

 

[DanBrunning]

NO MORTGAGES AVAILABLE ON DP1 DP2 or CORAL PEARL

I'M STILL WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING!!! GRADUALLY GOING ROUND THE BEND BUT LEGALLY STILL OF SOUND MIND FOR THE TIME BEING BUT FOR HOW MUCH LONGER WHO KNOWS, I NEED A HOLIDAY BUT HAVE TO SAVE MY HOLIDAY TIME TO GO AND SORT ALL THIS OUT AND SO I AM ALSO WAITING AND WAITING FOR THAT AS WELL, I THINK I SHALL FOLLOW NEILS EXAMPLE OF LAST WEEK AND GET A BIG BIT PI**ED!!!!!

Hi, i am here the DP1 is nearly there, still work going on in almost all aprtments so no one is missing out on rental biz. I am back next fri with pics of coral pearl and dp2 for anyone that is interested. I have instilled a working process with the guys here due to bad paintwok and filling and grouting called "like woman" If the finished job is nice to look at and smooth to touch with a good finish, its like a woman, if its rough like sandpaper and poor to look at ...its a man. The guys are eager to please, and have taken to this work ethic. Furniture pack is good also and the weather...well its turned out nice again

NOW THE IMPORTANT BIT FOR ALL OWNERS IN DP1 DP2 AND CORAL PEARL

YOU WILL NOT GET A MORTGAGE ATALL WHILE WWD CONTINUE IN THEIR CURRENT PATH

WHY I HEAR YOU CRY, WELL I AM HERE, IHAVE TRAWLED THROUGH PAPERS GOING BACK TO 1998, OFFICIAL ONES IN MY OWN QUEST AND THIS IS HOW IT IS.

yOU HAVE TO HAVE THE LAND OWNERS PERMISSION IN EGYPT TO OBTAIN ANY MORTGAGE ON PROPERTY ON IT. aLL 3 DEVELOPMENTS ARE ON A LAND OWNED BY RAWUN, LETS CALL HIM MR RAWUN FOR EASE

IT IS MR RAWUNS ONLY PLOT OF LAND FOR MANY YEARS HE IS THE OWNERCURRENTLY TOO. old school egypt now, he will NOT grant any permission until he has been paid for his land. This is not as a lump sum but approx give or take a bit 25% cut per apartment. once he is paid he will grant any permission until then, forget it. His trusted lawyer again for many years is Refaat of united lawyers so any permission at any stage is effectively done by him, hes the one wwd are paranoid about and have fallen out with, sean trusted him before his untimely death and guess what El riad trust him, they are the builders of all 3 developments also on a cut of the apartment, then WWD add therabout 50% for them...marketing , staff, commission etc.This consortium would have worked perfectly. Now WWD have fallen out, no. Land owner wont grant mortgage permission to get a mortgage to complete and it run full circle because he dont trust...via Refaat, WWD. So only way of completing is if out of 40 percent already collected, WWD pay the land owner his 25 percent...permission granted, Taamir have the permission to allow mortgage to comence ... to complete and wwd get the money they were always anticipating on as land owner already has his cut. Alternatively all 58 mortgage clients on DP1 group together and refaat at United lawyers establishes a mortgage company that isnt running through WWD, obviously Refaat will prob get commission instead of WWD and Refaat then convinces his long standing client who he represents no matter what to grant permission because he will be handling all mortgage funds through his client account. Everyones a winner except WWD who miss out on there intro commission. or you pay the whole amount from somewheer, complete and then you get a mortgage to replace wherever you got the money from. Or WWD do one apartment at a time, effectively paying land owner his cut for one for permission, when the mortgage goes through WWD go again with the money to the next client. I have seen planning permissions and official stamps from 2006 when the build first conceived and had sean been here or his family who have taken over try to understand how the egypt system works and stop thinking they can work their way, the better. Mr refaat has all papers and will give anyone the time to show and explain, the money he is asking for is for his other client Mr rawun so he can get the mortgage permission. No doubt he wants to complete for his clients El riad and Mr Rawun and for all us clients that are paying him, WWD have fallen apart and that is why no matter how nice jacqui is, they will never get a mortgage, because the only way is with permission through refaat of the land owner.

 

[Big-AL]

Jesus christ !!!!! what about if i have paid cash , do i still get the necessary papers or have we all bought the land owner a new apartment block which he can then rent back to us ?