Is it legal as a British expat to own property in the North and South?

[Lysos]

As I understand it the main problem in Thailand is that you can't actually own the land & anything you build on it can revert to the landowner after 30 years (I'm aware there are ways around this) though certain condominium developments can be held on a long lease. Stick to wherever you know best & are most comfortable. If for you, having done due diligence, that is Brazil, fine.

 

[Veronica]

Nothing like a warm welcome to the forum.

There are huge issues with people owning property in Thailand but it doesnt stop them owning property through one means or another.

Well it seems from what you two are saying best to stick to a real market like Brazil then

If you had done enough research you would know that Northern Cyprus has so many problems with property built on Greek owned land and the rightful owners pursuing court cases to get their property back. There are a great many Expats who are in danger of losing the properties they have bought and having to pay compensation to the rightful owner to restore the land to its previous state. This means villas being demolished and orchards replanted etc.
While property in the North looks like good value for money on the surface, with so many onging problems it would be foolish in the extreme for anyone to buy there until all of the problems have been ironed out.

Veronica

 

[SusanaSuspenda]

If you had done enough research you would know that Northern Cyprus has so many problems with property built on Greek owned land and the rightful owners pursuing court cases to get their property back. There are a great many Expats who are in danger of losing the properties they have bought and having to pay compensation to the rightful owner to restore the land to its previous state. This means villas being demolished and orchards replanted etc.
While property in the North looks like good value for money on the surface, with so many onging problems it would be foolish in the extreme for anyone to buy there until all of the problems have been ironed out.

Veronica

Thank you for the informative post

 

[SusanaSuspenda]

ECHR ruling on Cyprus property disappoints Greeks [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]

ECHR recognises north?s Immovable Property Commission - Cyprus Mail

A couple of interesting articles on the subject.

I have been to Cyprus, Greece and Turkey but not North Cyprus my own personal experience is Turks dont have a problem with Greeks but the Greeks have a huge problem with the Turks. This almost seems mirrored in the property markets in Cyprus.

 

[Lysos]

I think the truth anywhere is that ordinary law abiding citizens of any country have no problem with anyone else as long as their laws & culture are respected; it's politicians & religious leaders who are the problem.

 

[Veronica]

I lived in Cyprus in the early 70's before the Turkish invasion. What I saw was Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots living side by side in harmony.
The problem was with the Greece and Turkley both wanting control.
After the invasion Turkey took control of the North and flooded it with Turks against international laws.
It is the illegal Turkish immigrants and Turkey who are the problem. Turkish Cypriots have lost everything and are a minority in the North while illegal Turks sell Greek owned land with the help of the illegal government who issue illegal title deeds.

There is a saying, there are no Greek Cypriots or Turkish Cypriots, just Cypriots.

The sooner Turkey lets the true Cypriots take control of their own homeland and the illegal Turkish immigrants return to Turkey the better for everyone.

 

[countdown]

Pippin,
i'd agree with you that some turks have taken cypriot property, however, would it not be true to also say that cypriots have illegally taken turkish peoples property? This tit for tat can go on forever, it will not solve anything. The terrible injustice of the cypriot goverments attitude towards people who have purchased property in the south side of the island, is becoming known throughout the world and will eventually ruin the cypriot economy. It beggars belief that in this day and age, a person can buy a house in Cyprus, pay in full for it, use the Cypriot legal system, and still have that same property taken off them by the banks. How crooked is that? and not a turkish person involved, just the developer, the bank, the goverment and the legal system. Absolutely shocking, the only country in the world who are allowed to rob decent people and nothing can be done, YET.

 

[Veronica]

Pippin,
i'd agree with you that some turks have taken cypriot property, however, would it not be true to also say that cypriots have illegally taken turkish peoples property? This tit for tat can go on forever, it will not solve anything. The terrible injustice of the cypriot goverments attitude towards people who have purchased property in the south side of the island, is becoming known throughout the world and will eventually ruin the cypriot economy. It beggars belief that in this day and age, a person can buy a house in Cyprus, pay in full for it, use the Cypriot legal system, and still have that same property taken off them by the banks. How crooked is that? and not a turkish person involved, just the developer, the bank, the goverment and the legal system. Absolutely shocking, the only country in the world who are allowed to rob decent people and nothing can be done, YET.

Turkish Cypriot land in the South of Cyprus is under Guardianship of the government who permit Greek Cypriot refugees to live in/work from property owned by Turkish Cypriots. These people know that they could be required to return the property at any time to its rightful owners.
That has already happened in some cases of Turkish Cypriots taking out ROC passports and returning to live in the south. The government has also paid for the full renovation of the Turkish Cypriot property in some certain cases where necessary.
Also whilst the Greek Cypriot refugees are using the Turkish Cypriot owned land they pay rent to the government who hold it in an account for the Turkish Cypriot owners.
This bears absolutely no resemblance with what is happening with Greek Cypriot owned land in Turkish occupied north where Greek Cypriot owned land has been ‘given away’ by the illegal government with title deeds issued by the Turkish occupiers.

As for other issues with property in the South, the vast majority of properties have no problems at all. There are a few crooked developers and also some dishonest lawyers but there are now a few lawyers who are standing up to be counted and taking cases against developers and other lawyers to court and winning. This is sending out the message that things are going to change and people will no longer get away with what they have in the past.
Asfor anything else Cyprus is no different from many other countries including Turkey which also has some horror stories coming out of it.

 

[SusanaSuspenda]

Just to put a North Cyprus perspective on things which was sent to me and I did enjoy reading it

When it comes to land in North Cyprus there is a LOGICAL business answer….. and a more
POLITICAL answer.
The end game is as follows…. The fact that the Turkish Army has over 30,000 troops on the
island positioned across the border means that the Greek Cypriots aren’t going to march
over to North Cyprus and take all the land. By the same token the Greek Cypriots are not
going to take the Turkish Cypriots, throw them out of their properties and march them into
the sea !
The fact is that everyone has to live somewhere on the Island…. And during the unrest
between 1963-74 the Turkish Cypriot population was only about 5% of the island…. It is now
more like 15%.
Ok, so now we have established that the Turkish Cypriots living in their properties are not
going to be executed/marched into the sea/thrown into the streets/deported from Cyprus……
we must accept that they are there to stay. FACT
The Greek Cypriot propaganda machine is very well tuned… they believe (rightly so) that in
order to get the upper hand at the negotiations table at the ‘Cyprus Talks’ they must do
everything in their power to suppress the Northern Economy. In order to do this they employ
a variety of pressure group tactics, a great deal of which have paid off:
1) Petition for UN embargoes against the north
2) Petition for non direct flight to the north
3) Petition for non direct trade through the north
This all dates back to the Anan Plan of 2004, where the Turks voted in favour of a united
Island and the Greeks didn’t….. the EU then betrayed their promise of uniting the island and
allowed the Greek Cypriot side to enter Europe alone.
This is a brief history of where we are now.
There are 3 unofficial land titles in the TRNC:
Cutting to the chase…. In 2007 the Immovable Properties Commission was set up to pay
compensation to Greek Cypriots who have lost their land. The Turkish Mainland government
has bankrolled this. The Greek Cypriot who lost their land in 1963 is probably a pensioner
now with grown children. The grown children will be more interested in money than a piece
of land in the middle of nowhere…. So the choices for them are simple:
1) They have the land sectioned off and in 1,5,10 years whenever the Cyprus solution is
agreed… the can have the land back
2) They can have some money now
We all know the answer to the choices above !
The European Court of Human Rights ruled in March this year that any Greek Cypriot
wanting their land must FIRST go through the ‘compensation and restitution’ rights of the
Immovable Properties Commission…. Ie… they must seek resolution through the Turkish
Government offering them money. So far over 500 Greek Cypriots have signed over their
land through this system.
On a final note…. Larnaca airport is built in part on Turkish Cypriot land…. I cannot see the
Greek Cypriots handing over Larnaca airport to the Turkish Cypriots ! As you can see it
works both ways and whilst the Greek don’t want to move to the North and the Turks don’t
want to move to the South…. The only solution is a logical one born through negotiations
and not through the legal system…. Which is why the negotiations are taking place now
under the supervision of the UN Secretary General Ban-Ki-Moon.
LAND TITLES:
Foreign Title Deed and Turkish Title Deed
This is land or a house that was owned by a foreigner (Foreign Title Deed) or by
Turk (Turkish Title Deed) prior to the division of the island in 1974. This type of
deed was not affected by the division and the ownership of this type of property
is not disputed. Pre 1974 Turkish and 1974 Foreign title deeds are the only
deeds which are internationally recognized. There cannot be any Greek reclaim
on pre 1974 title deeds. There is very little of this property as the Turkish
Cypriot population was only 5% of the Island at the time.
Esdeger Title Deed (Exchange)
Esedeger Title ("exchange" title) is land originally owned by a Greek Cypriot
prior to 1974, with t itle deeds issued by the North Cyprus government post 1974
to a Turkish Cypriot refugee from the south on a points basis in compensation
for land abandoned in the south. It is widely known as exchange land - as the
Turkish Cypriot refugee had effectively swapped his land lef t in the south for
equivalent value land a Greek Cypriot abandoned Northern Cyprus. Under the
Annan Plan there is complete protection for an owner of Esedeger Title. A
person purchasing exchange land now is considered to be in exactly the same
posit ion as the original Turkish Cypriot refugee who swapped his land post-
1974. Acording to Annan Plan one of the protections is that a current owner
cannot lose Esedeger land if it has been ‘substantially improved’ since 1974. As
this includes the construction of a building the purchase of a house built on such
land since 1974 is therefore automatically protected
TMD Title Deed
Tahsis Title land is more popularly called "TMD land". It was land originally
owned by a Greek Cypriot prior to 1974; the title deeds were issued by the
TRNC North Cyprus government post-1974 to a Turkish Cypriot refugee or to a
Turkish mainland sett ler. Under the Annan Plan there is complete protection for
an owner of Tahsis Title as long as there has been a property built on the land
since 1974. In other words, a current property owner would be protected from
losing the land to the former Greek Cypriot owner because it has been
‘substant ially improved’ since 1974. Although Tahsis Title does not enjoy the
comparative value of Esedger title, it has little signif icance for most purchasers
as ‘substant ial improvement of land includes the construction of a dwelling, the
purchase of a property built on Tahsis land since 1974 is therefore also
protected under the Annan Plan as those on exchange title

 

[Veronica]

What a lot of propagander nonsense. None of this takes into account the fact that the Greek Cypriot RIGHTFUL owners of the properties have not agreed to exchange their heritage for Turkish land in the South.
They were forced to flee at gunpoint with many of them being brutally murdered by the Turkish troops, women with babies in their arms were gunned down.
Mass graves have been found but many many Greek Cypriots are still missing, unaccounted for.
My next door neighbours went to see their home when the borders were relaxed and returned in tears after seeing the way their family home was being lived in by what appeared to be nothing more than turkish gypsies with their animals in the house with them and other ramshackle buildings in what was once a lovely fruit orchard.
They have as yet never been offered any compensation or exchange land.
So where is all this compensation?

 

[Veronica]

Incidentally, the land on which Larnaca airport was built on was under a compulsory purchase order as happens no matter who owns the land and monies to pay for it is in trust for the owners of the land.
In the same way as when motorways are built over Greek Cypriot land they are paid compensation for it, the same as happens in every country of the world.
Actually as the only airport on the island at the time of the invasion was the wrong side of the green line the South needed an airport.

 

[countdown]

Pippin,
behind the scenes politically at the EU level, the cypriot goverment has been given one last warning to sort out the criminal activities of the banks, developers, lawyers and the govt. If this is not done in a very short time, then, i can assure you the banks will go under. It's that serious and i know, believe me.

 

[SusanaSuspenda]

Just trying to see both sides point of veiw rather than a one sided view

 

[mfo]

I agree with you kismet, however buying property in south cyprus is a bit of a no mans land, be aware that those lands are still in dispute from greekcypriots, and that is a main issue, and awareness by the goverment that you own illigally turking cypriot property can start penal prosecusion against you, so again as allready been said forming a company can be the best solution, in any case afterwards if you planing to sell it will be easier for you as you will skip the whole land registry procedure.

 

[Veronica]

I agree with you kismet, however buying property in south cyprus is a bit of a no mans land, be aware that those lands are still in dispute from greekcypriots, and that is a main issue, and awareness by the goverment that you own illigally turking cypriot property can start penal prosecusion against you, so again as allready been said forming a company can be the best solution, in any case afterwards if you planing to sell it will be easier for you as you will skip the whole land registry procedure.

Sorry but what you are saying is nonsense.
Firstly there is very very little problem with illegal building on Turkish owned land unlike the problems in the North.
Secondly you do not need to form a company to buy property in Cyprus and even if you did it dosnt get around the land registry procedure. Whether a property is bought by an indivdual or a company it still has to be registered to the new owner in the land registry.

 

[mfo]

Guys make things simple please.................buy in Cyprus north side with title deeds ready to be issued immidiately....no need to deal with off plan developments ....!! Lets not try to scare people off.
Pippin if you would like more information about company formation trustees and all the rest im happy to do so.....!

 

[mfo]

Sorry but what you are saying is nonsense.
Firstly there is very very little problem with illegal building on Turkish owned land unlike the problems in the North.
Secondly you do not need to form a company to buy property in Cyprus and even if you did it dosnt get around the land registry procedure. Whether a property is bought by an indivdual or a company it still has to be registered to the new owner in the land registry.

No there is huge problem with illegal building on Turkish side...as most building if not all of them are build on land that is in dispute, why do you believe the prices are lower on south than north side??? And secondly yes af course you do not need a company to buy property...but if you allready have bought a property in south side it will be best to form a company and buy the property on companys name that way you can cover your tracks '. It doesnt get around the land regisrty procedure???? im sorry wrong again, it can get register, im not sure weather you went through that procedure at land regitry but i have and i know it quite well.

 

[Veronica]

No there is huge problem with illegal building on Turkish side...as most building if not all of them are build on land that is in dispute, why do you believe the prices are lower on south than north side??? And secondly yes af course you do not need a company to buy property...but if you allready have bought a property in south side it will be best to form a company and buy the property on companys name that way you can cover your tracks '. It doesnt get around the land regisrty procedure???? im sorry wrong again, it can get register, im not sure weather you went through that procedure at land regitry but i have and i know it quite well.

I agree the problem is with building on the Turkish side, but you said the problem is building on Turkish property in the South. Property prices are lower in the North, I have never said they are lower in the South. The reason they are so much lower in the North is because most of the properties are built on land that does not belong to the developers but to Greek Cypriots who were displaced by the Turkish invasion.
As for buying property in a companies name in the South to 'cover my tracks' why on Earth would anyone need to cover their tracks unless they have done something illegal.?
Perhaps the reason you had to buy through a company is because you are not a citizen of an EU country?
As for going through the procedure in the land registry, yes we have bought two properties here in Cyprus (the South) so know the procedure and as we are a property marketing company we make it our business to know what goes on.

Veronica

 

[mfo]

What a lot of propagander nonsense. None of this takes into account the fact that the Greek Cypriot RIGHTFUL owners of the properties have not agreed to exchange their heritage for Turkish land in the South.
They were forced to flee at gunpoint with many of them being brutally murdered by the Turkish troops, women with babies in their arms were gunned down.
Mass graves have been found but many many Greek Cypriots are still missing, unaccounted for.
My next door neighbours went to see their home when the borders were relaxed and returned in tears after seeing the way their family home was being lived in by what appeared to be nothing more than turkish gypsies with their animals in the house with them and other ramshackle buildings in what was once a lovely fruit orchard.
They have as yet never been offered any compensation or exchange land.
So where is all this compensation?

I couldnt agree with you more Pippin.......and that is the reason why i choose not to visit again the turkish cypriot side....well said!!!

 

[FSB]

It may not be 'illegal' but it is morally wrong to purchase a property in the 'trnc' knowing that it may belong to someone else. It is akin to buy stolen goods in the pub.

Further, any pre '74 land that is TC you will not get ptp and so you will never actually own it. Anything else is like buying on a time bomb, it could go up in your face and you may lose your investment.

The RoC has also passed a law (although they don't really enforce it),that if you are stopped with any documentation pertaining to property in the 'trnc' you could be held and imprisoned for up to 7 years.

Be sensible, don't be attracted by the price, there is good reason it is low, it dodgy gear, buy safe buy legal, have a conscience.