Do i definately need a uk lawyer when buying in Egypt

[awahee123]

Hi people,

Good sound advice here so lets all get a lawyer.
If you think about it really we shouldnt be asking if we should get a Lawyer we should probably be asking if anybody can recommend a good lawyer.
What do you think people?.

 

[mtdd]

The best bet is to look up the lists of embassy-approved lawyers posted on most embassy websites (according to your nationality). My experience is that whilst these tend to be rather expensive, I have been screwed over worse by lawyers recommended to me by friends, than by the people I was paying them to protect me against! Be aware also that when dealing with lawyers (as indeed with anyone I suppose),language is very important.

Any lawyer representing you will ask you to execute a "tawkil" or power of attorney. Be very sure of what powers EXACTLY you are conceding. Abuse of PoA's is a scourge in Egypt. Be also sure that your lawyer delivers to you ALL relevant documents at the end of the process, as well as the original tawkil: and DO take the trouble to go with him to Sharia Akari (who authorise these powers) to execute formal cancellation of the tawkil. Most people forget to do that, and I have heard of lawyers using expired or cancelled tawkils for their own ends.

 

[dave99]

Recommendations - tricky area I think

Hi people,

Good sound advice here so lets all get a lawyer.
If you think about it really we shouldnt be asking if we should get a Lawyer we should probably be asking if anybody can recommend a good lawyer.
What do you think people?.

Recommendations - tricky area I think.

Other posts have made it clear that this also leads to problems.

Recent experience of using a "recommended" lawyer -
The first meeting was an expensive shambles. We knew more about contract law in Hurghada than she did, and she was Russian and did not even read the local language, and had booked the appointment on a local holiday so the office was closed when we arrived.

However it should be a "no brainer" even if you have to try more than one.

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[Nefertary]

I've been working in lawyer company here in egypt (Hurghda)..... after that i dont trust any lawyers here, after i got to know the inside cuisine and how they really work, just want to take your money and that's alll. So if you really found a good lawyer i will be very surprised, so no difference you use your own or that one in the developer's company...that's my opinion

 

[dave99]

Thanks for your "inside knowledge"

I've been working in lawyer company here in egypt (Hurghda)..... after that i dont trust any lawyers here, after i got to know the inside cuisine and how they really work, just want to take your money and that's alll. So if you really found a good lawyer i will be very surprised, so no difference you use your own or that one in the developer's company...that's my opinion

Thanks for your "inside knowledge" - a bit scary though !!!

It adds much more weight to my view that there is no substitute for making a personal decision about the person with whom you are contracting, in addition to the "no brainer" use a lawyer if it adds to your confidence.

Just beware of the cost of this extra help.



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[dave99]

Just when to use a lawyer

Checking up on Land title, licences, debts, previous owners I believe is the easy part! The difficult part is when the developer doesnt keep to his side of the agreement... Thats what you really need the contract for...and normally they have a few get out clauses, penalties for buyers etc etc!

Just when to use a lawyer.

If you need a lawyer to "amend" a contract because of bad terms then thats a bad start to the relationship betwee you and the developer.

If you have problem after sigtning then this is quite different.

As stated there are some very simple steps BEFORE signing which MUST be completed and should cost VERY little - maybe £100.

If you you feel the need to "fight" for fair treatment then a lawyer may be of more value, but will cost much more.

 

[dave99]

What experience leads you to this view

I have lived in Egypt for 16 years, and believe me - you need to use a lawyer. Your own lawyer. And then hire another lawyer to watch out that your first lawyer doesn't roll you into the gutter!

What experience leads you to this view.

It looks like bad news for the Egypian legal system if this is true.

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[dave99]

Why would you do anything different to buying in the UK.

Hi all,
I am thinking of buying an apartment in Hurghada, I have looked all over the web these last couple of months, read lot's of posts in this forum and read the propertastics 'book' on hurghada (very good).

My question as a newbie to buying property abroad is do I use the developers lawyers which are probably a bit cheaper (not too important that).

Or do I use a lawyer of my own.
One who is conversant in Egyptian law and English speaking.
If it is better to us my own lawyer how do i find a good one?

any help much appreciated .
Alan

Why would you do anything different to buying in the UK.

There are pros and cons for spending money on lawyers.

Sometimes you just need a "warm" feeling - other times you may have great doubts that need to be addressed.

Best thing is to get to a position where you have a good contract, have confirmed that everything is "as stated on the tin", and that you have a high level of confidence in the developer (not relying on any intermediatary).

At the end of the process it's the developer that will "do the job or not", and nothing that an agent or lawyer, or court can do will ever give you total satisfaction once you "fall out".

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[awahee123]

I think really everybody should have a lawyer even if it's to check the translation in the contract however i'm against giving power of attorney don't go down that road,it is surely a long one.

 

[Peter Mitry]

The reason many Developers use their own lawyers is because they don't have confidence in Egyptian ones. Even my own family who all originate from Cairo would NEVER choose an Egyptian lawyer practicing in Egypt. They use instead an Egyptian lawyer in London who is registered under the British Law society.

 

[awahee123]

I think you are right there Peter maybe this is the way forward.

 

[dave99]

How does it work using a UK lawyer

I think really everybody should have a lawyer even if it's to check the translation in the contract however i'm against giving power of attorney don't go down that road,it is surely a long one.

How does it work using a UK lawyer - and what does it cost.

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[awahee123]

Hi dave99,
I don't know how much a uk lawyer would cost but I bet they won't be cheap that's for sure.

 

[dave99]

Hearsay costs only

Hi dave99,
I don't know how much a uk lawyer would cost but I bet they won't be cheap that's for sure.

Hearsay costs only below:

I've heard of a quote for £1000 for a UK lawyer who would contact an Egyptian firm to do basic stuff for initial checks / POA and final registration work, and general advice (not any dispute activity)

Egyptian only Lawyer quoted £500.

All this seems VERY expensive for Egypt and the UK quote is just unreal for what is involved.

Any other quotes would be great for comparison.

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[queenie40something]

Cost of Egyptian Lawyer

Hi all

My friend is having a villa built in Spain and he has been asked for 9000 euros for lawyers fees.

This to be seemed really high compared to what I am being charged in Sharm which is £500 for a bedroom apartment.

What are others views and how does this compare?

 

[Peter Mitry]

Typically lawyers fees in Spain are 1% of the purchase price so if he is paying 900,000€ that would be right. Some Madrid lawyers may charge up to 1.5% but this is rare. Other costs are 7% VAT on new property (or 7% property transfer tax on resales) plus about 1.5% for Notary fees and land registry.

 

[queenie40something]

Hi Peter - I think he said the total to build including land and kitchen, bathroom tiles etc is £180,000. 3/4 bedrooms from memory.

 

[Peter Mitry]

Then it sounds as if he is providing far more than just conveyancing. Does this include architects fees? Some lawyers may introduce an architect as the buyer may not know one. Normal conveyancing is on a fixed scale between 1 - 1.5% only.

 

[queenie40something]

Hi Peter - I dont know. I gave him this website address yesterday as I said it seemed far too much and will try and get some more info next time I see him. It certainly is much more expensive than say Egypt.

 

[dave99]

Silly money by Hurghada standards

Hi all

My friend is having a villa built in Spain and he has been asked for 9000 euros for lawyers fees.

This to be seemed really high compared to what I am being charged in Sharm which is £500 for a bedroom apartment.

What are others views and how does this compare?

Silly money by Hurghada standards.

Even if paying for an English lawyer with links in Egypt it should only be about £1000, and that's about double what it is if you go direct to a local lawyer in Hurghada, and even that is much more than you really NEED to pay if everything is straight forward.

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