British TV to 'expose' Dubai !

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Brendan R

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Britain needs to clean up its own act before it is critical of the actions of others.It is just sheer arrogance.
What about the thousands of exploited and underpaid foreign workers in the uk of which there are many.What about the mis-treatment of people in the Uk including the elderly and mentally disabled.What about the killing of innocent people in Iraq.
No doubt there is mis-treatment of workers in Dubai.Then again there are also plenty who are treated well and this of course is not shown.
Also by focusing just on Dubai it gives the impression this is not a problem anywhere else.Of course it is.This allows those other countries to get away with their own mis-treatment.If the UK have a genuine interest in workers rights etc then they need to cover these other countries.If they dont then it will seem even more they have a hidden agenda where Dubai is concerned.
indeed, the UK is a poor example when it comes to judging on fair treatment of people. It is getting worse by the day. It doesn't feel good today to be a Muslim, Brazilian or Asian in modern UK. Freedom has gone out of the window. Cool Britannia is long gone, these are the days of repression and depression.
 
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heat_wave

New Member
I wish what you guys said was quoted in the british media as opposed to in forums only we read.
Its a shame that the british public are subjected to such biased media.
:(
 
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Happy hammer

New Member
Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi:
If you think Dubai is bad, just look at your own country
Say that I’d written that in first world Britain there are 380,00 homeless

Friday, 10 April 2009

I recently figured that if British journalists such as Johann Hari (Tuesday, 7 April) who come to Dubai don't send back something sensationalist it won't get printed and they won't get paid. After all, sleaze sells.

I called a British journalist friend of mine and said: "I'm going to write an article about London, the same way your compatriots write about Dubai." By the time I was back at home I had come to my senses, it's not fair to London, a city so dear to my heart, or Londoners to be judged by the actions of a few. It's easy to generalise about a country when figures are manipulated to sensationalise and sell papers.

Say for example that I had written an article that states that, in wealthy first world Britain there are 380,000 homeless people, many of them mentally ill, starving and abandoned in sub-zero temperatures to live on the streets.

Say then that I wrote an article that states that Britain, the so called "jail capital of Western Europe" sentenced in 2006 alone a staggering additional 12,000 women to prison and that up to seven babies a month are born in jail where they spend their crucial first months.

I could have written an article that stated Britain, victor in the Second World War, had given refuge to 400 Nazi war criminals, with all but one of them getting away with it. Or one stating that the number of Indians who died while serving the British Empire, to build your Tube and grow your tea, is so large it is simply unquantifiable by any historian.

Or say I write an article about the 2.5 million-strong Indian volunteer army who served Britain during the Second World War, where 87,000 of them died for their occupiers' freedom and yet until recently those who survived continued to be discriminated against in pay and pension.

I could have written an article that stated that, in civilised Britain, one in every 23 teenage girls had an abortion and in 2006 more than 17,000 of the 194,000 abortions carried out in England and Wales involved girls below the age of 18.

I could have written an article stating that Britain, the human rights champion, not wanting to get its hands dirty, had resorted to secretly outsourcing torture to Third World states under the guise of rendition by allowing up to 170 so called CIA torture flights to use its bases. Or that Britain's MI5 unlawfully shared with the CIA secret material to interrogate suspects and "facilitate interviews" including cases where the suspects were later proven to be innocent.

I could have written an article that stated that the Britain of family values is the only country in the EU that recruits child soldiers as young as 16 into its Army and ships them off battlegrounds in Iraq and Afghanistan, putting it in the same league as African dictatorships and Burma.

I could have written an article that states that Britain either recently did or has yet to sign the Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings, the United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict or the UN's International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families .

I could have highlighted the fact that liberal Britain is responsible for the physical and racial abuse of hundreds of failed asylum-seekers at the hands of private security guards during their forced removal from the country .

I could have written about the countless cases of slave-like working conditions of immigrant labours such as the 23 Chinese workers who lost their lives in 2004 as they harvested cockles in the dangerous rising tides in Morecambe Bay.

I could have written about how mortality rates from liver diseases due to alcohol abuse have declined in Europe in recent decades but in Britain the rate trebled in the same period reflecting deep societal failures.

I could have written about how in "Big Brother" Britain maltreatment of minors is so serious that one in 10, or an estimated one million children a year, suffer physical, sexual, emotional abuse or neglect.

Or that according to Oxfam 13.2 million people in the UK live in poverty – a staggering 20 per cent of the population in the sixth richest nation in the world.

I could have written all that, but out of respect for Britain, I decided not to. Because when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture: something that Britain's Dubai-bashers would do well to learn.

The writer is a journalist based in Dubai
Indeed you 'could have' written any of those statements. Some of these subjects are debated openly on a daily basis in the UK and have been for many years, that is the great thing about a free press something that Dubai can look forward to one day.

Dalvir I thought this forum was supposed to focus on the Dubai property industry? if you want to start getting political maybe you should try a different forum.
 
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Happy hammer

New Member
I wish what you guys said was quoted in the british media as opposed to in forums only we read.
Its a shame that the british public are subjected to such biased media.
:(
heat_wave are you having a laugh?

We have an open free press in the UK - i could write in the UK press that the Queen was a heroin addict as long as i could substantiate the claim. You talk about the UK having a biased media when in Dubai the state hides the truth from the public with its censorship. This is why i applaud this type of investigative journalism, it brings out the truth to all concerned not just people in the UK but to people worldwide.
 
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heat_wave

New Member
lol as a Brit myself I'm just happy I don't have to worry about being raped, mugged, beaten up, knived in Dubai. So all is good :D
 
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escrow_officer

New Member
This is why i applaud this type of investigative journalism, it brings out the truth to all concerned not just people in the UK but to people worldwide.
For a long time, I admired western democratic values, Journalism and Right of free speech etc and dreamed about having the same in my own country one day. Those people were my heroes who built such magnificent cities in which people were living wonderful lives.

Then came events like 9/11, 7/7, Madrid & Mumbai and I looked at those heroes for reasonable explanation and investigation of such acts but it was never there instead they were trying to find a justification for those who were responsible for these.

Now I wonder that “brief phase“ would ever come back again with all that which was in it once.


(PS. Just a personal opinion. Plz no offense)
Regards
 
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Riz110

New Member
before this the same media coudnt stop blowing their trumphets about Dubai and its construction etc....... from appx last 6 years since the boom started they have been here !! were they blindfolded all this time ? why couldnt they see all those "abuses" then????
British media is biased and have their own agenda behind this...!!!!!
 
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patience

New Member
For a long time, I admired western democratic values, Journalism and Right of free speech etc and dreamed about having the same in my own country one day. Those people were my heroes who built such magnificent cities in which people were living wonderful lives.

Then came events like 9/11, 7/7, Madrid & Mumbai and I looked at those heroes for reasonable explanation and investigation of such acts but it was never there instead they were trying to find a justification for those who were responsible for these.

Now I wonder that “brief phase“ would ever come back again with all that which was in it once.


(PS. Just a personal opinion. Plz no offense)
Regards
Well the Dubai goverment pay these organisations large amounts of money not to do the same in Dubai. Go figure that one out!
 
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devaya

New Member
SLUMDOGS AND MILLIONAIRES!
SLUMDOGS AND MILLIONAIRES!

Sums it up pretty well - 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for £120 per month with overtime at 30p an hour. Living in piss and sh**, 8 men to a cell (oops i mean room) and nothing to eat except bread, rice and water.

Now what does that remind you of?

Clue- second world war, man with a funny moustache?

The people responsible for this in Dubai should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!
And what do we do to the s$$ %ole$ from wherever who want to take advantage of this ???
 
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devaya

New Member
regret the day I ever invested in Dubai. There are more horror stories to come out of

Well said!

I regret the day I ever invested in Dubai. There are more horror stories to come out of Dubai yet!
Please do not regret for if you do you would end up being very sorry:cool:
 
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devaya

New Member
heat_wave;100880[/b said:
You know what I don't have a problem with them reporting on labour camps and such. I have a problem with british journalists writing tacky articles about their distaste for the Dubai lifestyle. Such as Germaine Greer saying Burj Dubai looked like a needle in the Lords ass. Its just a cheap tactic. As for labour camps sure its the negative side of Dubai. Everywhere has a negative side as far as I'm concerned an article or documentary on that is good journalism. Its all the rubbish that comes out on a day to day basis from British papers which is just getting irritating.
Let anyone (including British journalists) say what they want to say. It does not & will not change anything. Remember, for every person leaving Dubai, there are two people wanting to come in. Wait and watch !:)
 
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DelboyG

New Member
????

Let anyone (including British journalists) say what they want to say. It does not & will not change anything. Remember, for every person leaving Dubai, there are two people wanting to come in. Wait and watch !:)
Devaya, I love the positive thinking, but where do you figure that 2 to 1 is going to come from if the people already here are on reduced salaries or not being paid at all??

Gov companies are not paying contractors, contractors can't pay suppliers, suppliers can't pay staff = equals another round of layoffs (or runners, when schools out) in the summer = less money in the economy and a further downwards spiral!.

We are on a downwards spiral and I don't see anything out there to arrest the situation - so if you are in the know, please lets us all in on the plan 'B' OK.

The bond issues is only about saving the Gov owned companies, they won't mind if a load of dependent suppliers go down, that is, until they understand they don't have buyers for the under construction properties, then they'll be in the same situation as the current landlords, crying about global crisis when it was all so self inflicted.

Please tell me about plan 'B' as I said, I'm ever the optimist here.
 
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devaya

New Member
Devaya, I love the positive thinking, but where do you figure that 2 to 1 is going to come from if the people already here are on reduced salaries or not being paid at all??

Gov companies are not paying contractors, contractors can't pay suppliers, suppliers can't pay staff = equals another round of layoffs (or runners, when schools out) in the summer = less money in the economy and a further downwards spiral!.

We are on a downwards spiral and I don't see anything out there to arrest the situation - so if you are in the know, please lets us all in on the plan 'B' OK.

The bond issues is only about saving the Gov owned companies, they won't mind if a load of dependent suppliers go down, that is, until they understand they don't have buyers for the under construction properties, then they'll be in the same situation as the current landlords, crying about global crisis when it was all so self inflicted.

Please tell me about plan 'B' as I said, I'm ever the optimist here.
DelboyG, expressing my thoughts would take pages of writing. I look at it this way - the Government is currently 'testing waters' to see which laws should be modified, created or cancelled. With the money they have already spent to develop Dubai, they have no choice than to be seriously concerned. When nothing works, all the freebies and incentives will come in and the entire cycle will start again. Freebies and incentives are enough to pull in billions of dollars of investors money which is otherwise lying idle and waiting for the green light. The Goverment is still spending a lot money on development despite being in debt (as people say). I am sure they have something up their sleeves.

Yes, I fully agree that many are losing their jobs and leaving. This is happening
in many parts of the world. It is not particularly a Dubai problem. When there is no spending, there is no business. A company or organisation has to cut costs, the first being to trim the workforce. When things recover globally, hiring will resume everywhere (including Dubai). The Government will be compelled to take many decisions (planned or unplanned) in a bid to get the desired results. They definitely know what they are doing... I feel the fundamantals of Dubai are still intact. Give it a few years, let the developments be completed and we could take it from there with no heart aches.

Trashing by the media has created an illusion that Dubai is finished. Take a critical look - I can assure you that it is absolutely not so. When it was at its peak, many said it was the best place in the world to live in. Now at its trough many say they regret having had anything to do with Dubai. How unfair ... :(
 
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DelboyG

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DelboyG, expressing my thoughts would take pages of writing. I look at it this way - the Government is currently 'testing waters' to see which laws should be modified, created or cancelled. With the money they have already spent to develop Dubai, they have no choice than to be seriously concerned. When nothing works, all the freebies and incentives will come in and the entire cycle will start again. Freebies and incentives are enough to pull in billions of dollars of investors money which is otherwise lying idle and waiting for the green light. The Goverment is still spending a lot money on development despite being in debt (as people say). I am sure they have something up their sleeves.

Yes, I fully agree that many are losing their jobs and leaving. This is happening
in many parts of the world. It is not particularly a Dubai problem. When there is no spending, there is no business. A company or organisation has to cut costs, the first being to trim the workforce. When things recover globally, hiring will resume everywhere (including Dubai). The Government will be compelled to take many decisions (planned or unplanned) in a bid to get the desired results. They definitely know what they are doing... I feel the fundamantals of Dubai are still intact. Give it a few years, let the developments be completed and we could take it from there with no heart aches.

Trashing by the media has created an illusion that Dubai is finished. Take a critical look - I can assure you that it is absolutely not so. When it was at its peak, many said it was the best place in the world to live in. Now at its trough many say they regret having had anything to do with Dubai. How unfair ... :(

These are only my personal opinions so don't take them as Dubai bashing, but so far it seems that you and the powers that be are just clutching at straws (or should I say looking for green shoots) and fiddling while Rome burns. The press bashing of Dubai is the absolute least of the problems and as they say "there's no smoke without fire".

"the Government is currently 'testing waters' to see which laws should be modified, created or canceled. With the money they have already spent to develop Dubai, they have no choice than to be seriously concerned. When nothing works, all the freebies and incentives will come in and the entire cycle will start again."
Spot on - giving the absolute minimum away now to see how things pan out - but if you can already see how the crisis is working through the economy, then sitting back and waiting is just folly that means when things do turn around they will be starting from a much lower population base.

"Yes, I fully agree that many are losing their jobs and leaving. This is happening
in many parts of the world."
Wrong, in other parts of the world the people are not leaving, they are still in country toughing it out and will still be there for the upturn. I'm not so sure that the many dedicated people will be back to Dubai after being burnt so badly in the last few years.

"I feel the fundamentals of Dubai are still intact."
The key fundamental that is no-where near to being addressed, the fact that Dubai needs population growth to sustain the development, how will that happen with 10% Locals and a shifting guest worker population? Property / Tourism / Retail / Commerce, all the key goals of 2015 depend on population, yet the powers that be can't bring themselves to admit that! Until they do, how do you stabilize and get a core population in place?. Long term residency IS the only way forward and even that is only a part of the puzzle.

Dubai will never be finished, it will always be the gateway to the Middle East, it can always shrink back to Deira / Bur Dubai and Jebel Ali, but that is not what the dream is about, well not the dream sold to the investors on here.
 
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heat_wave

New Member
hmm dubai booming dubai failing. i don't know. Right now its not my biggest concern. All I know is I am dealing with so many buyers more than I can handle and I can not even find them the properties they want! Why is nobody selling anymore? Something is happening here.
 
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memo123

Member
Prove it , give us examples

hmm dubai booming dubai failing. i don't know. Right now its not my biggest concern. All I know is I am dealing with so many buyers more than I can handle and I can not even find them the properties they want! Why is nobody selling anymore? Something is happening here.
I dont really know what you are talking about for even in auctions people are not picking up properties in Dubai . So I wonder what areas you are talking about and at what prices these buyers are looking to buy , and are we talking about Dubai ?
Please enlighten us .
 
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mmike

New Member
I think media's task and right is to talk about different things and reveal the truth so that bad things can be changed. Obviously, media ARE rather manipulative, but this is the way it is by definition. I personally think that in every rumour there is a grain of truth, and if the British media can help reduce human abuse in Dubai we should be happy and proud of it!
 
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financier888

New Member
the good, the bad and the ugly...

Although I would agree that indeed, certain fundamentals are in place and the govt has taken good constructive steps - such as: scaling back projects thus reducing the downward pressure on inventory and continuing with the infrastructure, there are other areas whereupon they have fell painfully short...

So many investors have simply been 'burnt' - with little in the way of any protection or recourse. I do believe that the govt has acted in good faith in enacting laws to help protect investors, but it now appears they lack the proper mechanisms - to enforce the very laws they created. We are talking about thousands and thousands of investors and the numbers are staggering - this won't simply 'go-away' - and expect more to hit the media - especially when people / investors sense that justice is not being served. What other recourse do they have??

For example - RERA has gotten tons of complaints about errant developers and gross violations of laws - like the escrow laws - but what happens? Investors are advised to file a civil action - which is costly and time consuming. In the amount of time that passes - the developer can simply leave the country! (and this has already happened....) In other jurisdictions, when evidence or allegations of what constitutes 'White collar crime' - occurs - the authorities move in - grab the records for forensic accounting - interview all personnel connected thereto and move forward with a case - the only time we have seen this happen is when a scandal happens connected to a govt linked company... We have yet to see this in the private sector.

BY the time that months and months pass, and they do make an arrest - in all probability - all relative documents have been shredded and key witnesses gone - including the principle players - (take Sanali - for one! and there are many, many more...)

This is more than a deal simply 'going bad' - we're talking about misappropriation of funds - that were supposed to be deposited in escrow and be 'safe' - If an atty in another country takes money from an escrow acct and uses it for their own personal use - what happens?? they get disbarred, fined and go to jail. !! The plaintiff is not referred to the 'civil' court or told - 'sue him or her' - good luck!

I think RERA has the desire to sort these issues out - but it seems they lack the proper mechanisms and processes to do so in a timely and decisive fashion. They leave the burnt investors with the feeling that they almost prefer the developer do a runner - so they can simply chalk it up to a civil action and investment gone bad & the risk of investing. This is the perception in many cases and as such - the reality - whether real or imagined. It will most certainly effect the creditability of Dubai when it comes to the future. This is NO SMALL MATTER and no amount of PR or 'Spin' is going to make it go away -= only decisive ACTION - which has not been forthcoming to date.

The other main issue is that of the VISAs and - the seemingly erratic changes in official policies. In less than 6 months - we've already seen several changes in the visa laws! and the latest is still far off the mark when it comes to attracting investors and more so - for end users... (Which the govt claimed they really wanted when they stated months ago that 'the flippers' were hurting the market..) As correctly and succinctly stated in a previous post - 90% of the residents here are expats - so there is very little in the way of 'internal' 'home-grown' demand - which is not the case in most countries that have been negatively been impacted and are more likely to recover faster - so, this begs the rhetorical question - 'Where will this these end users come from?' Keep in mind - there is still tons of inventory sitting vacant with many, many investors holding multiple units and some entire floors - just sitting. Not to mention that inventory coming online...

Then you need to look at the 'cost of living' in Dubai - whether from a residential perspective or setting-up a business as an owner operator. ALL the fees connected thereto are rising - like getting your visa renewed! ( as a friend just relayed to me...) it seems the red tape and associated costs are rising! hardly an incentive - when you consider a country like Singapore - where it costs a few hundred bucks to incorporate - many of the systems and processes can be done online and the cost of the visa runs about US $100 - or less!! For qualified applicants - they are more than eager to offer you a PR - which run in 5 year renewable terms.. THEY NEED TO ATTRACT TALENT and WANT THEM TO STAY AND INVEST!! Conversely, in Dubai, people are left with the impression - 'Yes, we want your money / investment but we'd rather you just stay for 6 months or so...' - you can't have it both way..

In closing, 'the govt has 'something up their sleeve and will release the 'freebies' later ' - I'm afraid it will be too little - too late. Duabi will always be an international hub - but from a risk assessment perspective - it is quickly losing ground which will open the door for regional competing markets...
 
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