seven lakes

[bunna]

Hi I bought on the seven lakes development back in aug 2007 and have not found another thread about these anywhere. Has anyone else bought there and does anyone know if I should stay with it or sell. Any info would be gladly received

 

[Smarty]

Hi I bought on the seven lakes development back in aug 2007 and have not found another thread about these anywhere. Has anyone else bought there and does anyone know if I should stay with it or sell. Any info would be gladly received

Ah yes at last...i have been looking for a thread myself. Well you bought at the same time as me so that means the value went up then down and now sits about 5% lower than you paid in Euro's. If you are from outside Bulgaria eg UK currency shifts mean that in £ terms you are probably about 15% up.....if you were to get a buyer at the current valuation.

I beleive the development to be sound and of good quality and am continuing with the purchase. Securing a mortgage has however been tricky as Bulgarian Banks are no longer lending to foreign buyers. Cant wait for completion which should happen November time for my phase......also note that the Golf link is a bit of a con because the local IBAR wont let you play unless your own, are renting a unit or have a friend who owns....there are ways around this though

Reply and we can chat further

 

[bunna]

Hi, wow can't believe it, it's so nice to finally talk to someone who's even heard of this development, let alone bought!!!
The developer seems really nice and thank god he's kept us up to date on what's been happening because who we bought through seems to have washed their hands of it. I bought through Obelisk. I've got 2 properties in phase 5 which should complete before end of Dec but probably November but we are taking the 6 month delay clause which our solicitor told us about.
Did you manage to sort out a mortgage? and are you outside of Bulgaria too. I live in U.K. Thanks for the information you gave it makes me feel alot more confident because all I keep hearing is horror stories about the housing crash in Bulgaria. Hope to talk soon Janine

 

[Timithypaul]

Hi,

I dont think anyone is up 15% who bought property in Bulgaria and the worst hit is the ski resorts like Bansko etc and Sunny Beach. Sorry to say this but its true. Development is still going ahead on some projects as construction is so cheap and deposits will well cover the cost of construction. Very good property in a very good location is making 800-900 max per/sq/m. Bansko you would be lucky to get 500 per/sq/m and thats for good quality.

 

[bunna]

Hi,
He did actually say that it's about 5% down on when purchased but the Euro has changed alot since then so that's where he got the 15% up by, so do you know the seven lakes development? It's just nice to hear from anyone else who has bought there

 

[Timithypaul]

Bulgaria

Hi Bunna,

Sorry I don’t but I wish you the best of luck I bought property along the Black Sea coast and I know people who bought in Sofia even prices have fallen in Sofia but not as bad as the Ski Resorts and Black Sea coast if this development is not complete you would be wasting your time and money and don't spend any money on estate agents who will charge you 500 pounds to advertise your property and tell you your property is worth more or as much as you paid for it, its only a rib off you may as well give it to charity. Hopefully for all our sake the markets will turn until than hang on if you can. All the best.

Tim,

 

[bunna]

Thanks Tim, I wish you all the luck too

 

[Smarty]

Thanks Tim, I wish you all the luck too

Yes the Euro / Pound exchange rate and the fact that we enjoyed a period of good price increases before things turned have helped. At the top of the market though the propeties were probably worth over 200 k Euro. Our properties have therefore devalued by 20 - 25% from the height of the market which is about right. This has been confirmed by a recent property valuation for my mortgage.
I secured a mortgage through Piraeus bank but I understand that the offer is now closed. The developer has now arranged mortgages through their bank but expect to up your deposit if you are foced to go that route. It may be that the mortgage market will improve by the time completion comes on your units,,,lets hope so.

Yea as i said before it is a top end development which is not in a typical / overdeveloped area, it is freehold and they are freestanding houses as such I am confident that the investment is sound, but it is a medium / long term option if you want a good return.

See you out there in 2010

 

[bunna]

Yes the Euro / Pound exchange rate and the fact that we enjoyed a period of good price increases before things turned have helped. At the top of the market though the propeties were probably worth over 200 k Euro. Our properties have therefore devalued by 20 - 25% from the height of the market which is about right. This has been confirmed by a recent property valuation for my mortgage.
I secured a mortgage through Piraeus bank but I understand that the offer is now closed. The developer has now arranged mortgages through their bank but expect to up your deposit if you are foced to go that route. It may be that the mortgage market will improve by the time completion comes on your units,,,lets hope so.

Yea as i said before it is a top end development which is not in a typical / overdeveloped area, it is freehold and they are freestanding houses as such I am confident that the investment is sound, but it is a medium / long term option if you want a good return.

See you out there in 2010

Hiya Smarty
Glad to have your reply! What phase are you on? and did you buy through Obelisk?
Well done for securing your mortgage, they wouldn't let us as it was still too long till completion, they would only do it 3 months before. You did mention there were ways to get around playing on the ibar course, any info I would gladly appreciate.
Enjoy your sking season and see you in 2010. Oh sorry are you going to rent your place out and if so are you doing it through the developer, Ta lots

 

[Timithypaul]

Hi,

Property valuation’s means nothing it’s what people are willing to pay for your property you may think it’s worth alot more. It’s down to the buyer and what he is willing to pay for the property. You may think your property is worth 200k a Buyer will have a budget in a property slump that budget is very small. Hotels are being sold for less than 500K in Sunny Beach and Bansko that’s reality. And Ski Resorts are the worst affected of all. The developer will drive up the price and add on the agents commision. You can not value a resale property unless a resale market exists and in Bulgaria we have yet to see a resale market.

 

[Lysos]

The idea that these properties are "worth" €150 - 200,000 is ludicrous. The location may be picturesque but it is at least 15 minutes drive from the ski resort. (and if the developer says 15, its probably more !). In fact a car would be essential if staying here, to do anything.
Skiers want to be able to walk to the lifts. Added to the comparatively short ski season the chances of rental returns are slim. Plus, you pay management charges, local taxes and utility bills regardless of occupancy.

 

[Smarty]

Hiya Smarty
Glad to have your reply! What phase are you on? and did you buy through Obelisk?
Well done for securing your mortgage, they wouldn't let us as it was still too long till completion, they would only do it 3 months before. You did mention there were ways to get around playing on the ibar course, any info I would gladly appreciate.
Enjoy your sking season and see you in 2010. Oh sorry are you going to rent your place out and if so are you doing it through the developer, Ta lots

Firstly to Tim....yes agreed trying to establish a value on a property without a sale is hypothetical. Its only worth what someone will pay for it and i think that in the current market it would be difficult to find a buyer at a reasonable price. Having said that i know of some people where the bank valuation was 40% + less that what they paid for the property so a valuation at 5% less that the purchase value is positive in the current climate. Also the Bank carries some risk and they are unlikely to exaggerate when valuing for mortgage purposes. Fortunately we have no intention to sell in the short term....

Bunna, yes i did buy through Obelisk and in there were some things that i found quite dissapointing. Firstly the golf was noted as a plus factor whereas it is not...that should have been checked in their "due dilligence", secondly the "guaranteed mortgage" was not guaranteed...sure they couldn't have predicted the property slump but guaranteed is guaranteed and they failed on that count. Finally their finance team promised on several occasions to contact me when i was enquiring about alternative financial solutions and never did...which is just plain poor...so they get a 3/10 from me and wont be getting my recommendation.

To answer your question on Golf...the only way around this is to rent one of the smaller properties while you are there...they are reasonably priced...thereby getting access to the course. I imagine that that would work well for all concerned. I still feel however that in the medium term once they manage to sell most of their units it would make sense for them open the course up to the public...they have closed to the public to avoid people buying / renting outside their development.

We will explore options relating to renting the property out. It is likely that initially we will use it ourselves and rent for holiday breaks to work colleagues and friends. Thereafter getting "permanent" tenant / opening it up to others to place holiday lets may be an option.

 

[Smarty]

The idea that these properties are "worth" €150 - 200,000 is ludicrous. The location may be picturesque but it is at least 15 minutes drive from the ski resort. (and if the developer says 15, its probably more !). In fact a car would be essential if staying here, to do anything.
Skiers want to be able to walk to the lifts. Added to the comparatively short ski season the chances of rental returns are slim. Plus, you pay management charges, local taxes and utility bills regardless of occupancy.

Lycos, you need to consider the development in entirety when considering you comments. These are not ski units but freestanding "homes" in a great location built to a high spec and within reasonable commute to Sophia. The run of the mill ski chalets that I looked at before choosing this development have all been hit a lot harder. The top end of the market has historically shown resilience in tough times and I expect that to hold true again.

 

[Timithypaul]

Hi,

If Lysos is right about location you have a problem with renting. Location location location its everything.

 

[Smarty]

Hi,

If Lysos is right about location you have a problem with renting. Location location location its everything.

That may well prove true..its difficult to say. I am not so worried about the 15mins to Borovets but the 45 mins to Sophia. If it is 45 mins then its much shorter than my commute to London for work...that opens up rental possibilities significantly.

 

[Timithypaul]

Hi,

Well best of luck anyway and hope it works out for you.

Tim

 

[bunna]

wow

That may well prove true..its difficult to say. I am not so worried about the 15mins to Borovets but the 45 mins to Sophia. If it is 45 mins then its much shorter than my commute to London for work...that opens up rental possibilities significantly.

Hi Smarty,
How funny I couldn't get anyone to talk to me at all about this project until you finally found my thread, now look, we've started a lively discussion!!
I must admit when I looked at this, the sking was a bonus but it was the spa, golf and summer activities that were of more interest, especially in the rental side of things.
Good luck and enjoy the beautiful lodge you've bought!!

 

[Nick_buyer]

Hi,

I dont think anyone is up 15% who bought property in Bulgaria and the worst hit is the ski resorts like Bansko etc and Sunny Beach. Sorry to say this but its true. Development is still going ahead on some projects as construction is so cheap and deposits will well cover the cost of construction. Very good property in a very good location is making 800-900 max per/sq/m. Bansko you would be lucky to get 500 per/sq/m and thats for good quality.

Hi All,

According to me the prices of properties in Bulgaria are going down. Bansko for an example