M
MrCock
New Member
Hi,
I think the question we are all wondering is: will Cyprus property drop greatly in price?
The "Am I Too Late for investment in Cyprus?"-thread is full of amazing information about that, but it has become too big (11 pages) and spanning too many years (2006-2009) for any serious discussion in my opinion, so I have attempted to summarize the tread.
2006:
andy: "Cyprus will crash, there is too much supply, prices are too high and our key overseas market (the English) are staying away in droves.".
armando: "The market topped last year after a lot of hype about the effects of EU membership"
"Therte is very limited infrastructure there. My wife complains often about the lack of shopping and our kids likewise about the few leisure facilities."
InvestmentProperty: [that's his name]
"1) They are building 9 new Golf courses, (Talked about 14)
2) There is a new 1000 yacht marina being built in the next 3 year. (The biggest in the east med)"
2007:
Pete: "My wife and I moved to Cyprus 2 years ago and decided to hedge our bets... ...However, it wasn't until we lived out here and started renting/dealing with management companies, estate agents, tennants and watched our so called 'investment opportunities' sit stagnant that we realised the truth!", sounds like a really wise recommendation, that you really have to get out to visit before making any decisions.
Bazza: "We all know that residential property prices are way too high compared to salaries in Cyprus. For us in the UK (and other parts of the world) the prices seem reasonable compared to the type and size of house we own here." He also mentions how much cheaper it is in Florida.
"Cyprus economy is dependent on Tourism"
"Cyprus is a bit of a boring place to live. It is exciting for the first few years but eventually you will get fed up with the sun and the sea" that sounds pretty depressing to be honest.
". Don’t’ trust anyone. A nice Greek-Cypriot person is a profitable nice Greek-Cypriot person. It is very hard to find an honest trustworthy person over there. It is al about money. Greed has taken over "
"7. No potential for investment. It is not London guys. There is a reason why so many people invest here in London. Cyprus is only for living a family life (or retiring). Do not be fooled by what people say." I have personally never understood why London is so expensive I would never want to live there, but I see his point, people do move to where the jobs are.
"The Cyprus invasion is still a problem. Not sure what would happen to the whole island if there was a solution. My feeling is that the south will suffer."
"9. The euro entry in 2008 will bring a lot of surprises. There is a big reason why the UK has not accepted it. Just look what happened in Greece when it entered. To clarify that in 2008 Cyprus will no longer use the Cyprus pound but the Euro."
charis: "Do not expect huge returns on your investements for the following years. Let's be honest... ...if you are looking for a place to live then Cyprus is one of the best places" nice to hear some positive views, I am not looking to flip property, but I want a good place to live.
Kismet: "The resale property market in Greek Cyprus is almost dead. It takes two years + to sell a unit. Too many people have been conned by the developers into believing that they can easily rent their Villas or Apartments to holiday makers. "
"because there are just not the number of holidaymakers ( going down every year since 2001!!) coming to Greek Cyprus because it is now expensive to eat out ( CY£15 per head +) etc"
". They will cheat you over and over again. GC culture seems to regard cheating foreigners out of their money as good business and the practice is endemic."
Journo: "Long term rentals are at much much lower figures. " Good to know, since I might start renting there rather than buying a house straightaway.
Tim: "This year investigations have begun into potential large oil fields (potentially running into hundreds of billions in value) off Cyprus "
grumpy001: "The oil issue has been spoken of for many many years and the level of exploration just now is probably not sufficient to hang your hat on for an Investment"
Martinos: "TAKE MY WORD FOR IT
U ARE THE LUCKY ONE
WAIT FOR A YEAR AND U LL BUY HALF PRICE"
finally someone is saying what I want to hear, although the all-caps writing perhaps doesn't make me want to take his word for it
2008:
Nigel: "There is huge oversupply here at the moment - one advertising company has more than 20,000 properties on its books - that's more than a years supply."
"In my opinion, there are just too much buy-to-let property on the market at the moment chasing too few holidaymakers. Of course, that may change in a couple of years time when (hopefully) the credit-crunch is over and Cyprus is able to attract more holiday-makers." I guess this theory largely depends on whether you think the credit crunch is over or not.
", make sure you get independent legal advice from a competent lawyer"
"the quality of some of the 'luxury property' being thrown up at moment leaves a lot to be desired!" That's a good point, especially when only viewing it from the websites and you see the word luxury I sometimes think to myself is that really luxury though?
Pippin: "My advice to anyone looking to buy in Cyprus (and I sell property here) is do not do it unless it is for your own retirement, "
BTL: "There are however some great bargains to pick up from people who are about to be repossessed. It's not so great for them of course, but that's the way of the world"
estate: "As international investors desert the Cyprus property market as the global economic crisis rages on, sales, especially of holiday homes, drop by 40 per cent and the market heads towards a recession. Despite this, Cyprus remains a good long term investment… "
"The country’s Finance Minster, Charilaos Stavrakis, has warned that the decline in sales will have a large impact on the island’s revenue as it means a reduction in Capital Gains Tax, which has already fallen by 18 per cent this year alone. " I wonder if that means they will have to raise taxes, as the main reason I want to live there is because of the low taxes.
Clive: "If and only IF there ever was a solution to the cyprus problem, I cannot see how that would give a boost to Southern Cyprus property market, quite the opposite maybe." I agree
theflipset: ". The property market has yet to crash, Brits are still buying on Cyprus " but when will it crash then?
Cornholio: "PROPERTY sales in coastal areas have dropped up to 40 per cent as a result of flagging demand from foreign buyers, though prices are generally stable, estate agents said yesterday."
so the sales has dropped, but when will the price drop..
“Jobs will be lost as we are not planning any new projects for next year. We also have problems with selling properties in current projects as the banks are not giving out loans easily any more,” confirmed Vasos Loizos, Director of Limassol-based Loizou Bros Developments Ltd.
that can't be good for the country (of course I want to price to fall, but not the country to go into a complete recession with high crime rates and stuff)
2009:
"AS MANY as 3,000 construction workers in Paphos could lose their jobs in the coming months if there is no turnaround in the real-estate slump, a survey of companies in the area has found."
"PETER Paradisos, the marketing manager for Maispa Developers said prices were falling steeply even though he didn’t have any official figures as yet." I wonder how much
“The British will come back but it will take until 2010 before we see this happening,” he said.
“‘They just don’t have the money at present to make purchases.”
Hmm, 2010 that's not far at all, I wonder if he is right, that this little slump in prices was all and now it's going to go up again, I'm not sure I believe that
"BuySell index: house prices remained stable until end 2008
(archive article - Tuesday, February 3, 2009)
HOUSE prices last year overall withstood the global property market recession, recording a slight increase with an average home price of €190,330.
However prices were still much less dynamic in 2008 compared to 2007, influenced mainly by the worsening global economic conditions, according to the BuySell Home Price Index.
From January to December 2008, the index recorded a total increase of 2.8 per cent compared to 2007’s total increase of 19.2 per cent. " So it's still not falling!
"REAL-ESTATE advertiser BuySell has slashed the asking price on 217 selected properties across the island, after receiving “requests from thousands of customers asking for bargains and opportunities”, according to a marketing email the company sent out this week."
"According to BuySell ten of the properties are on sale for 50 per cent less than market value, while 45 properties are going for 40 per cent less and the remainder for 30 per cent less."
"Some of the ads indicate that the property for sale has not yet been completely built, and only feature the developer’s illustration rather than actual photos" oh my God I hate when they do that
hearts: "Cypriot property is about 50% over priced. The belief that 2010 will see a return of the british investor is a false one. Britain could strugggle for the next 10 years with regard to property and borrowing on it to purchase. This will have a dramatic effect on the Cypriot market.
Buying anything in Cyprus at todays prices is only for the rich or foolish."
Interesting view,
Cornholio: "THE GLOBAL crisis has finally reached the Cyprus real estate market, with home prices displaying a 2.2 per cent decline during the first quarter of the year, according to the BuySell Home Price Index.
For the period January to March 2009, the Index recorded a cumulative decrease of 1.7 per cent"
Lysos: "If even BuySell are admitting a fall then rest assured it's a slump !."
". Yes, a lot of developments are on hold, lots of lay offs, but there's still a reluctance to drop prices; they are still trying the old gambits of 'free' aircons, furnishings etc. Just won't work in today's market, which is why there are very few sales, new or resale. Wait until the end of the summer, when visitor numbers are down 50%; then reality might bite; I say 'might' because traditionally in Cyprus the reaction to a reduction in customers is to raise prices !." Exactly
Charles: "THE LAND Registry expects property prices to fall by the end of the year [written 2009] as pressure grows on developers to offload unsold stock, it emerged yesterday.
Prices should start falling noticeably from September, due to the combined effect of a lack of movement in the property market and the large debts owed by developers to the banks. The Land Registry indicated that if prices of existing unsold property fall by as much as 15 per cent, this would make the local property market more competitive for foreign investors.
selling prices are in fact already falling. Over the last three months, prices have fallen by around three per cent, "
Lysos: ""an amazing drop of 10.5%". They still don't get it, do they ?. Prices need to drop by 30-40%, as seen in Spain & Portugal to be realistic. "
So...
the purpose of this thread was really just that I needed to summarize all of this information so I can throw away all hundreds of pages of printouts I have and have more of a clear mind of it, but I thought I might as well summarize it here for everyone to see.
feel free to discuss anything that I've summarized, personally these are topics that are most interested in:
I think the question we are all wondering is: will Cyprus property drop greatly in price?
The "Am I Too Late for investment in Cyprus?"-thread is full of amazing information about that, but it has become too big (11 pages) and spanning too many years (2006-2009) for any serious discussion in my opinion, so I have attempted to summarize the tread.
2006:
andy: "Cyprus will crash, there is too much supply, prices are too high and our key overseas market (the English) are staying away in droves.".
armando: "The market topped last year after a lot of hype about the effects of EU membership"
"Therte is very limited infrastructure there. My wife complains often about the lack of shopping and our kids likewise about the few leisure facilities."
InvestmentProperty: [that's his name]
"1) They are building 9 new Golf courses, (Talked about 14)
2) There is a new 1000 yacht marina being built in the next 3 year. (The biggest in the east med)"
2007:
Pete: "My wife and I moved to Cyprus 2 years ago and decided to hedge our bets... ...However, it wasn't until we lived out here and started renting/dealing with management companies, estate agents, tennants and watched our so called 'investment opportunities' sit stagnant that we realised the truth!", sounds like a really wise recommendation, that you really have to get out to visit before making any decisions.
Bazza: "We all know that residential property prices are way too high compared to salaries in Cyprus. For us in the UK (and other parts of the world) the prices seem reasonable compared to the type and size of house we own here." He also mentions how much cheaper it is in Florida.
"Cyprus economy is dependent on Tourism"
"Cyprus is a bit of a boring place to live. It is exciting for the first few years but eventually you will get fed up with the sun and the sea" that sounds pretty depressing to be honest.
". Don’t’ trust anyone. A nice Greek-Cypriot person is a profitable nice Greek-Cypriot person. It is very hard to find an honest trustworthy person over there. It is al about money. Greed has taken over "
"7. No potential for investment. It is not London guys. There is a reason why so many people invest here in London. Cyprus is only for living a family life (or retiring). Do not be fooled by what people say." I have personally never understood why London is so expensive I would never want to live there, but I see his point, people do move to where the jobs are.
"The Cyprus invasion is still a problem. Not sure what would happen to the whole island if there was a solution. My feeling is that the south will suffer."
"9. The euro entry in 2008 will bring a lot of surprises. There is a big reason why the UK has not accepted it. Just look what happened in Greece when it entered. To clarify that in 2008 Cyprus will no longer use the Cyprus pound but the Euro."
charis: "Do not expect huge returns on your investements for the following years. Let's be honest... ...if you are looking for a place to live then Cyprus is one of the best places" nice to hear some positive views, I am not looking to flip property, but I want a good place to live.
Kismet: "The resale property market in Greek Cyprus is almost dead. It takes two years + to sell a unit. Too many people have been conned by the developers into believing that they can easily rent their Villas or Apartments to holiday makers. "
"because there are just not the number of holidaymakers ( going down every year since 2001!!) coming to Greek Cyprus because it is now expensive to eat out ( CY£15 per head +) etc"
". They will cheat you over and over again. GC culture seems to regard cheating foreigners out of their money as good business and the practice is endemic."
Journo: "Long term rentals are at much much lower figures. " Good to know, since I might start renting there rather than buying a house straightaway.
Tim: "This year investigations have begun into potential large oil fields (potentially running into hundreds of billions in value) off Cyprus "
grumpy001: "The oil issue has been spoken of for many many years and the level of exploration just now is probably not sufficient to hang your hat on for an Investment"
Martinos: "TAKE MY WORD FOR IT
U ARE THE LUCKY ONE
WAIT FOR A YEAR AND U LL BUY HALF PRICE"
finally someone is saying what I want to hear, although the all-caps writing perhaps doesn't make me want to take his word for it
2008:
Nigel: "There is huge oversupply here at the moment - one advertising company has more than 20,000 properties on its books - that's more than a years supply."
"In my opinion, there are just too much buy-to-let property on the market at the moment chasing too few holidaymakers. Of course, that may change in a couple of years time when (hopefully) the credit-crunch is over and Cyprus is able to attract more holiday-makers." I guess this theory largely depends on whether you think the credit crunch is over or not.
", make sure you get independent legal advice from a competent lawyer"
"the quality of some of the 'luxury property' being thrown up at moment leaves a lot to be desired!" That's a good point, especially when only viewing it from the websites and you see the word luxury I sometimes think to myself is that really luxury though?
Pippin: "My advice to anyone looking to buy in Cyprus (and I sell property here) is do not do it unless it is for your own retirement, "
BTL: "There are however some great bargains to pick up from people who are about to be repossessed. It's not so great for them of course, but that's the way of the world"
estate: "As international investors desert the Cyprus property market as the global economic crisis rages on, sales, especially of holiday homes, drop by 40 per cent and the market heads towards a recession. Despite this, Cyprus remains a good long term investment… "
"The country’s Finance Minster, Charilaos Stavrakis, has warned that the decline in sales will have a large impact on the island’s revenue as it means a reduction in Capital Gains Tax, which has already fallen by 18 per cent this year alone. " I wonder if that means they will have to raise taxes, as the main reason I want to live there is because of the low taxes.
Clive: "If and only IF there ever was a solution to the cyprus problem, I cannot see how that would give a boost to Southern Cyprus property market, quite the opposite maybe." I agree
theflipset: ". The property market has yet to crash, Brits are still buying on Cyprus " but when will it crash then?
Cornholio: "PROPERTY sales in coastal areas have dropped up to 40 per cent as a result of flagging demand from foreign buyers, though prices are generally stable, estate agents said yesterday."
so the sales has dropped, but when will the price drop..
“Jobs will be lost as we are not planning any new projects for next year. We also have problems with selling properties in current projects as the banks are not giving out loans easily any more,” confirmed Vasos Loizos, Director of Limassol-based Loizou Bros Developments Ltd.
that can't be good for the country (of course I want to price to fall, but not the country to go into a complete recession with high crime rates and stuff)
2009:
"AS MANY as 3,000 construction workers in Paphos could lose their jobs in the coming months if there is no turnaround in the real-estate slump, a survey of companies in the area has found."
"PETER Paradisos, the marketing manager for Maispa Developers said prices were falling steeply even though he didn’t have any official figures as yet." I wonder how much
“The British will come back but it will take until 2010 before we see this happening,” he said.
“‘They just don’t have the money at present to make purchases.”
Hmm, 2010 that's not far at all, I wonder if he is right, that this little slump in prices was all and now it's going to go up again, I'm not sure I believe that
"BuySell index: house prices remained stable until end 2008
(archive article - Tuesday, February 3, 2009)
HOUSE prices last year overall withstood the global property market recession, recording a slight increase with an average home price of €190,330.
However prices were still much less dynamic in 2008 compared to 2007, influenced mainly by the worsening global economic conditions, according to the BuySell Home Price Index.
From January to December 2008, the index recorded a total increase of 2.8 per cent compared to 2007’s total increase of 19.2 per cent. " So it's still not falling!
"REAL-ESTATE advertiser BuySell has slashed the asking price on 217 selected properties across the island, after receiving “requests from thousands of customers asking for bargains and opportunities”, according to a marketing email the company sent out this week."
"According to BuySell ten of the properties are on sale for 50 per cent less than market value, while 45 properties are going for 40 per cent less and the remainder for 30 per cent less."
"Some of the ads indicate that the property for sale has not yet been completely built, and only feature the developer’s illustration rather than actual photos" oh my God I hate when they do that
hearts: "Cypriot property is about 50% over priced. The belief that 2010 will see a return of the british investor is a false one. Britain could strugggle for the next 10 years with regard to property and borrowing on it to purchase. This will have a dramatic effect on the Cypriot market.
Buying anything in Cyprus at todays prices is only for the rich or foolish."
Interesting view,
Cornholio: "THE GLOBAL crisis has finally reached the Cyprus real estate market, with home prices displaying a 2.2 per cent decline during the first quarter of the year, according to the BuySell Home Price Index.
For the period January to March 2009, the Index recorded a cumulative decrease of 1.7 per cent"
Lysos: "If even BuySell are admitting a fall then rest assured it's a slump !."
". Yes, a lot of developments are on hold, lots of lay offs, but there's still a reluctance to drop prices; they are still trying the old gambits of 'free' aircons, furnishings etc. Just won't work in today's market, which is why there are very few sales, new or resale. Wait until the end of the summer, when visitor numbers are down 50%; then reality might bite; I say 'might' because traditionally in Cyprus the reaction to a reduction in customers is to raise prices !." Exactly
Charles: "THE LAND Registry expects property prices to fall by the end of the year [written 2009] as pressure grows on developers to offload unsold stock, it emerged yesterday.
Prices should start falling noticeably from September, due to the combined effect of a lack of movement in the property market and the large debts owed by developers to the banks. The Land Registry indicated that if prices of existing unsold property fall by as much as 15 per cent, this would make the local property market more competitive for foreign investors.
selling prices are in fact already falling. Over the last three months, prices have fallen by around three per cent, "
Lysos: ""an amazing drop of 10.5%". They still don't get it, do they ?. Prices need to drop by 30-40%, as seen in Spain & Portugal to be realistic. "
So...
the purpose of this thread was really just that I needed to summarize all of this information so I can throw away all hundreds of pages of printouts I have and have more of a clear mind of it, but I thought I might as well summarize it here for everyone to see.
feel free to discuss anything that I've summarized, personally these are topics that are most interested in:
- Alot of ppl were talking about a mega price-drop, like 30-50%, do you think that's likely?
- Cyprus economy seems to be in big trouble, do you think that might affect its nice tax status? The main reason I want to move there is because of my Internet business would save tons in taxes.
- does anyone know of people who have moved there for there for working "online"? It would be really nice to hear their experiences since most of what I've read is for those who have retired there.
