What a ridiculous thing to say.It obvious to anyone with half a brain that the western media hate the Muslim state of Dubai and are continously printing negative reports.Much of which without any real research.I told you guys, the Western media will NOT get be under any kinds of pressure when describing Dubai's situation. Its good news since NY Times shall definately be taken seriously! But still a lot more to come.
Huh?? I'm not really sure what you're trying to turn this into, but if it because of desperation to sell real estate I think you should go out and have a walk before posting again....hate the Muslim state of Dubai...
Gulf News said:Three face Dh43m bribery allegations
By Bassam Za'za' Senior Reporter
Published: February 11, 2009, 22:55
Dubai: Two senior managers and a legal advisor at Dubai Waterfront, a leading property developer, are being questioned over bribery allegations worth more than Dh43 million, sources told Gulf News on Wednesday.
Senior Public Prosecution sources said the Australian managers, 43-year-old Mathew James Joyce and 39-year-old M.R., and their 45-year-old compatriot legal advisor, A.J., were detained around two weeks ago and are being questioned in relation to a business deal they struck with an offshore company.
Joyce's lawyer Salem Al Sha'ali, of Al Sha'ali and Co Advocates and Legal Consultants, said his client's situation is "clean and lawful".
"He denied the charges. The suspected transaction cannot be considered a bribe. The figure isn't exact and the amount was given back because the deal didn't go through. It's a big misunderstanding."
Al Sha'ali said the Public Prosecution was keeping him in the dark concerning the investigation. "We have submitted our legal response which counters the allegations. We have witnesses as well," he said.
Prosecution sources told Gulf News that the suspects have not been charged with bribery yet as 'the investigations continue'.
Link to Article
Dude I think its you whos in need of a walk and a reality check too.Huh?? I'm not really sure what you're trying to turn this into, but if it because of desperation to sell real estate I think you should go out and have a walk before posting again.
YOU ARE 100% RIGHT DoBuy!!Dude I think its you whos in need of a walk and a reality check too.
I've lost count of the number of negative reports Ive read on Dubai from the western media.Disgust for its bling,extravagance,opulence,etc.
Yet I dont read the same on Monaco for example.
Ive read many posts on various forums from members who also think part of the reason is because Dubai is a Muslim state.It it was in Europe then no problem.
The west do not want Dubai or the Middle East to become a financial hub also and to take business away from the west.
Deal with reality.
O and PS,I'm a european not a muslim.
Sorry to point this out, but just wanted to correct this.I'm a european not a muslim.
Sorry to point this out, but just wanted to correct this.
Muslim is not an ethnicity or a race. It is a religion. You can have European Muslims, Indian Muslims etc; you can also have Christian Arabs etc;
Islam is a religion like Christianity and Ehudism and Buddhism and many other religions in the world.
In Sept ’08 I was in New York City attending a national Finance conference. I met with many CEO’s & MD from major finance firms – many in the RE Sector. NOT ONE – not a single one I spoke with had a bad word to say about Dubai. In fact, many were intrigued about Dubai and were looking forward to visit here and explore opportunities. Some of those I spoke with were Jewish! And they also wanted to visit Dubai!Dude I think its you whos in need of a walk and a reality check too.
I've lost count of the number of negative reports Ive read on Dubai from the western media.Disgust for its bling,extravagance,opulence,etc.
Yet I dont read the same on Monaco for example.
Ive read many posts on various forums from members who also think part of the reason is because Dubai is a Muslim state.It it was in Europe then no problem.
The west do not want Dubai or the Middle East to become a financial hub also and to take business away from the west.
Deal with reality.
O and PS,I'm a european not a muslim.
My point is, that it doesn't matter if you're European or Asian or American to be a Muslim. You can still be European AND Muslim. You can't say "I'm European, Not a Muslim" because then you are referring to Muslims as a race/ethnicity and not a religion. I'm NOT attacking you here, I'm simply correcting.Thankyou for telling me something I already know.Your point?
Jelousy has no Origins... It exists in anyone.would seem there are more Arabs that were jealous of Dubai than westerners…
I though it was clear what I said.I said Dubai is a Muslim state,which it is and that it seems some in the western media are against Dubai because of this fact.Maybe.My point is, that it doesn't matter if you're European or Asian or American to be a Muslim. You can still be European AND Muslim. You can't say "I'm European, Not a Muslim" because then you are referring to Muslims as a race/ethnicity and not a religion. I'm NOT attacking you here, I'm simply correcting.
That's like me saying I'm European, not a Christian, so on so forth.
Jelousy has no Origins... It exists in anyone.
I didnt quote US politicians but western journalists.Of course you are correct,the opinions of these few doesnt necessarily reflect the opinions of the masses.In Sept ’08 I was in New York City attending a national Finance conference. I met with many CEO’s & MD from major finance firms – many in the RE Sector. NOT ONE – not a single one I spoke with had a bad word to say about Dubai. In fact, many were intrigued about Dubai and were looking forward to visit here and explore opportunities. Some of those I spoke with were Jewish! And they also wanted to visit Dubai!
(Incidentally – Dubai doesn’t have more ‘bling’ than Hollywood – Rodeo Drive - or Vegas.)
Please do not confuse some of the rhetoric you hear from US Politicians being negative about ‘oil producing states’ – that does NOT reflect the majority of US citizens. (just look at the 60%+ that voted for Obama that has Muslim roots…) and his popularity is currently at 69% + Whatever negative reporting you may see about Dubai in western media – it represents a mere fraction of the negative news on the local economies… Best to keep this all in context and not read too much into it – especially, if the motives you suggest are more of your subjective resonance, not remotely connected with the intentions of the reporter. I have read articles quoting top Saudi investors predicting the ‘Fall of Dubai’ & the Bubble Bursting last summer. It would seem there are more Arabs that were jealous of Dubai than westerners… (and I have the articles archived…)
We are ALL in this together and ONLY by working together can see our way clear of this
Salam !
I read these two articles and the comments. If they had been written in the USA - I reckon they would have been published in a trailer-park newsletter... or maybe Rupert Murdoch.. ?Here you go Tommy C,two reports in two highly respected UK newspapers to make my point.
The first one in The Times,from some twat who slated Dubai without ever going there !He basically got his info from travel guides ! Whats even more amazing is that his editors allowed this crap to be published
Why I'd rather die than visit Dubai | Sathnam Sanghera - Times Online
The second in The Guardian from another idiot who slated Dubai after having spent 4 hours in a bus around Dubai !
Germaine Greer: From its artificial islands to its boring new skycraper, Dubai's architecture is beyond crass | Art and design | The Guardian
Comment?
I have no idea why you mentioned anything about religion, that was completely uncalled for and unnecessary, and I can't see how it relates to the news reporting in any way. I understand that other countries news reports are critical for you. You're an agent, you need to sell, you need the buyers here at whatever cost there is (including completely disregarding the Code of Ethics Welcome to the Official Dubai Real Estate Community once agreed upon). That's the way the entire real estate business works, as I'm sure you're aware. The only thing I find in your comments is frustration regarding lack of sales and not enough PR to kickstart it now or, preferably, yesterday to what it was.Here you go Tommy C,two reports in two highly respected UK newspapers to make my point.
The first one in The Times,from some twat who slated Dubai without ever going there !He basically got his info from travel guides ! Whats even more amazing is that his editors allowed this crap to be published
Why I'd rather die than visit Dubai | Sathnam Sanghera - Times Online
The second in The Guardian from another idiot who slated Dubai after having spent 4 hours in a bus around Dubai !
Germaine Greer: From its artificial islands to its boring new skycraper, Dubai's architecture is beyond crass | Art and design | The Guardian
Comment?
And that's the most worrying part, because in other countries they can at least admit the extent of the problems and act on them. Here it is more about covering up and keep claiming there's no fire even though we all can see that there's a huge fire behind your back.Bankers worry that the government remains in denial about the depth of its problems, given the slowdown facing its services economy and the closure of international financial markets. “Dubai is still just trying to market its way out of this huge hole,” says one.
This comment is pretty much in line with how things have been changed before, as discussed here: http://www.propertyforum.com/forum/dubai-property/11812-another-clarification-regarding-laws-policies.htmlWhat will probably happen is that they'll clarify that there are only 11 of the total 900+ (or whatever the recent 1-2 month figure is) which cannot be traced to the: original owner and auto loan providing bank.
They'll say it is the efficiency of the system in tracking cars (aka Salik RFID tags) that enabled them to trace most of the cars back to the bank or dealership.
The remaining 11 were stripped of tags, plates and unique manufacturer number (chassis number).
Then a report will come out banning auto loans outright to bachelors, as they have a higher flight risk, and only provide them to family members (people in families of 4 or more). To bolster the lost car sales they'll limit the number of people to a car to 3 so that families may have to split the drivers between 2 cars giving them license plates ending indifferent numbers ie odd and even. (note this can bolster Salik Revenues)
Then in the "Green Push" they'll tax both cars, or better yet restrict cars ending in even numbers to driving every second day and odd numbers on odd numbered days.
I'll let you Choose your own next installment to the saga..
So, what are we trying to achieve here?I believe the key point in this entire argumentation is being missed out.
No, the crisis is not limited to Dubai...BUT, the PR machine Dubai have claimed until very recently that is was to be unaffected by the crisis and thus misleading prospective buyers.
This forum is about investments in property. It is to serve the purpose of discussing facts and risks involved in this particular market. And this market has and is still (though to a lesser extent) fuelled by the propaganda coming from official sources (newspapers and government approved developers/real estate agents) which not even remotely covers all the facts that are to be considered by a prospective investor (there are a lot of brokers that should read up on the "Code of Ethics" they once agreed upon). As an investor with actual experience I definitely feel that I cannot happily watch other prospective investors be mislead the same way I was.
This is not about what will happen in so and so many years, this is about making visible the facts that a prospective investor needs to know before making a good, well-informed, decision if and when/where to invest. When that very investor KNOWS:
- that the Law 13 he's been told about by developers and government approved developers/real estate agents and read about on the OFFICIAL government webpage, isn't valid in the form it's STILL being published, and
- how government approved developers and real estate agents work and what stories he can expect and what questions to ask and what answers to get ON PAPER, and
- that the information he finds in the local newspapers are heavily biased (with a few exceptions),and
- that an "escrow" account isn't really protected, and
- that developers have actually ran away, and
- that it may take years and years before the market value catches up with the price you paid, no matter how good the location etc. was claimed to be, by which time you'll probably realize that your neighbor bought at half of your price, and
- that mortgages are currently extremely restricted and interest rates high, high, high, and
- that once the papers are signed he's left on his own no matter what slogans and claims government approved developers/real estate agents have made before (they won't be accountable for anything they've said/promised),and
- that the law in this country can change overnight, and
- that extensive construction delays is the rule, not the exception, and
- that the quality of the buildings leave a lot to desire, and
- the list continues...
then, and only then, will he be able to assess the risks involved in investments in Dubai and is able to compare them to other places and then make his own decision about when/where/if to invest. Those are current facts and I can see why most of the government approved developers/real estate agents are willing to step over dead bodies to keep them away from the public eye: Without sales they can't make a living. But is a virtually inflated market really anything anyone desires? The desperation seems to exist on both sides; investors that want to get out at any cost and developers/real estate agents that by any means try to convince prospective investors to buy just to get hold of the commission.
Happily knowing that once a prospective investor have had all this information presented to him and analyzed, and feel this is the time and place to invest, all fine. Because no matter what you say regarding other news being to negative or whatever, the fact remains that A LOT of honest people have been stuck in Dubai because of their believe in the vision which they were convinced of by the government, their news, and their APPROVED real estate agents. The very same vision that is now falling apart quickly at the same time as the government is turning their back on the laws that investors took into consideration when making their choice to invest.As an investor with actual experience I definitely feel that I cannot happily watch other prospective investors be mislead the same way I was.
The NY Times may very well be a good newspaper generally,but personally I have to discredit a report that gets alot of its info from secondhand information,i,e,quotes this newspaper and that newspaper etc.This one certainly set off a bit of a firestorm. That was unintended. One has to realize that all media outlets from all countries have some sort of agenda. That is a well known fact and most people that are reasonably intelligent accept that and try to view these things with a critical eye. That is called critical thinking. Publications and networks in the 'West' have certain agendas and political leanings just like many here in the Middle East do. To equate the NY Times with particular anti-Muslem types of biased reporting is false. It certainly has biases, but it is one of the most 'liberal' newspapers in the United States. They have consistently questioned Bush and the Republicans war mongering policies while being ardent supporters of Obama. They question the Christian fundamentalist and creationism movement underway in America (this week they even have a special edition on Darwin),they discuss and examine major environmental issues, the sleazes that caused this economic catatrophy etc. To say that the writers and editors at the NY Times are jealous of Dubai is absurd! This article merely reports on many of the things WE KNOW are happening here. We have been talking about these things for months. Why is is that when the NY Times reports it, it is considered Dubai bashing...or even worse: Muslem Bashing? Ridiculous.
With respect to it looking like a ghost town, I'd have to agree to an extent. How many buyers are there these days? Not exactly banging down the proverbial doors are they? Have you actually seen how many empty apartments there are? Have you seen how many lights are off at night? As one reader suggested recently: they're not out smoking shisha. They're empty! How about renters? Are people having any easy time getting renters and enough rent money to cover their mortgages? Not lately!The NY Times may very well be a good newspaper generally,but personally I have to discredit a report that gets alot of its info from secondhand information,i,e,quotes this newspaper and that newspaper etc.
I also have to discredit a report that states:
' Dubai — once hailed as the economic superpower of the Middle East — looking like a ghost town'
You've gone off the subject.I am talking about the article from the NY TimesHow many buyers are there these days? Not exactly banging doen the proverbial doors are they? Have you actually seen how many empty apartments there are? Have you seen how many lights are off at night? As one reader suggested recently: they're not out smoking shisha. They're empty! How about renters? Are people having any esay time getting renters and enough rent money to cover their mortgages? Not lately!
Dude, your arguments and viewpoints are seriously clouded by your unsubstantiated bisaes!
